this is another success story on the
keyword golden ratio today I talked to a
pastor named Duke & Duke has a site that
made nine hundred and sixty-seven
dollars in March of 2018 with just about
two hundred visitors a day we're gonna
go over all the details if you want to
hear from Duke in the future and get an
update please be sure to leave a comment
so here are a couple things
Duke shares with us his tips on viral
type titles to help name all your blog
posts to hopefully get a higher
click-through rate and his tips for
beginners which is a little
counterintuitive and I find it pretty
interesting and very helpful I actually
agree with them so let's get to the
interview right now hey I'm Doug
Huntington I'm sitting here with Duke
welcome Duke how are you today how about
yourself doing really well thanks it's
sunny here in Montana and at least for
the next 24 hours it's not supposed to
snow so I'm happy about that so don't
they get it
I want to hear about your site Duke I
want to know a little bit about the
earnings and just the the traffic right
and hear how you got to that point okay
well I have two sites now but the first
site I did that was a niche site Amazon
affiliate type site actually was born
out of frustration and I was searching a
project that I was trying to get
accomplished for live streaming and I
could not find the information that I
needed to get it going and so I was
using it for a specific purpose I had
started out trying to use an old an old
camera and how do you get the old camera
to actually send you real video to a
computer so then he can put it over the
Internet
and what I was looking for that I didn't
know at the time was an HDMI to USB
converter actually that's what I ended
up with but I needed an AV out of that
camera into to convert to USB to go to
computer I searched and searched and
searched couldn't find it finally
stumble upon something in a forum and
got what I needed and I went man there
has to be a web
that deals with these types of
Technology issues that I deal with I
mean there was a couple of them but they
were not Amazon affiliate sites they
were just blogs and they were not even
SEO optimized or anything and I thought
this would make a great niche for an
Amazon site I had been searching for a
different type of website because
advertising websites like with that
sense or without networks the return on
investment is continuing to drop and the
revenues are continuing to drop and it's
becoming a lot of work for a little
money right and you know for and I'm
sorry to interrupt you before we go on
so what is your revenue out right now
with that we're looking at just so
people can quickly get a sense of why
we're talking well I just came in under
$1,000 in March cool congratulations
like nine hundred sixty-seven yeah okay
so maybe maybe this next month coming up
so there yet what's the traffic at just
to give people an idea right now like
the last month in March it was right
around 200 visitors a day gotcha
so six six thousand people for the month
nice so that's really I mean that's it's
a great amount of revenue for that many
visitors I think and I cut you off I'm
sorry Duke so it's all geared about
close to a thousand about 200 unique
visitors a day and you it's you know you
were telling us that you were basically
trying to find a solution to a problem
and you ended up with you know a bunch
of sites with maybe not great
information and did you eventually you
know so we have a conclusion to your
story did you eventually find the right
cable yes I found the right converter it
actually is 120 bucks or whatever and I
have it a whole article on how you do it
down you could help yes and that's how I
started and the niche has actually
proven to be fairly popular it'll never
be a large site because it is so narrow
in focus but it'll definitely be
profitable very cool very cool and I'm
gonna toot my own horn here so the
keyword golden race
played some role in what you were able
to accomplish can you just describe
maybe like when you heard of the key
word golden ratio and then how you
implemented it personally I had stumbled
across human proof designs Authority
hacker and niche pursuits and in there
somewhere either you did an article or
they referenced you and so then I found
you on YouTube and at that point you
were talking about key word golden ratio
and so I started looking and about 40%
of the articles I have on the first site
is keyword golden ratio articles cool
and you did that without knowing you
just were very minutely focused or did
you intentionally write those with the
keyword golden ratio or you just
discovered that you already followed it
50/50 I went back and looked at some of
them that I was already targeting and
they were key word golden ratio
compliant but then I specifically went
looking for more so about 40% of the
articles it's like I'm gonna give a
different niche because I'm not going to
help my niche yeah just use that point
pen just to okay they would be like best
ballpoint pen for green house workers
and it's a great format by the way for
people that are just getting started
it's like product type for a user type
or a specific application it's a great
way to look at yeah yeah basically it
sounds like there was a lot of key word
golden ratio content you stumbled upon
it by accident and then after you
realized that that is actually where
your site was getting a lot of traction
you double down on it and now you know
you're intentional about what you're
publishing exactly got it I have one
article that is the best ballpoint pen
for writing essays say it showed ten
searches and I get a hundred one hundred
visitors a month off that one article
it's so misleading because when we when
we first get started we believe the
tools right we think the tools are I
mean they give exact numbers so we
expect there's a amount of precision
and/or accuracy if you're a science nerd
you know the difference it's really an
estimate there are just estimates so I
hear basically everyone has a story of
like yeah went after something with 10
or 0 searches now it's like
the most trafficked page on their site
and it's like really against intuition
so interesting now let's let's go back
further Duke so what can you tell us a
little bit about your day job just to
get to know you like what do you I mean
you don't have to share if you don't
want to but your day job like what you
used to do how'd you get in the internet
stuff well my day job is I'm a pastor I
passed her a small church here in the
Bay Area I started actually started
doing that I started a church in 1988
okay so been doing it a while I've also
driven truck that was my secondary
income for a lot of years because
contrary to popular opinion most people
don't go into being a pastor to get rich
and most I shouldn't say this but most
salary committees prayed that God you
keep him humble and we'll keep him poor
you just don't make a lot of money when
I was by vocational almost my entire
life okay it just got to be too much
back in 2011 and my mom had been bugging
me to start writing for the local
newspaper
so I decided okay fine I mean I was
never good in English I thought in fact
I'm a pastor and I flunked speech in
high school so but so I was never good
in English but I okay fine she been
bugging me for years so I wrote for the
local newspaper and it was really
popular so at that point I thought well
why don't I put it on the Internet so I
did what every dummy does and go it went
and started a blogger blog you know and
it was ugly in what year was that 2011
2011 okay so I started doing that and
had a little bit of success and then I
ran across a guy that ran a Christian
personal finance website and was
teaching about blogging and he came out
he did an article on keyword research
and at that time he was recommending
market Samurai and you know that that
dates me a little bit sure I give it a
try and so I did an actual article that
was based on search and what people are
searching for
and it took off and I thought I had hit
the Holy Grail you know and so I started
doing everything I switched over to
WordPress
I had lists upon lists and different
things that people were searching for
and in my first year I had a half a
million people coming to the website
half a million uniques Wow yeah that was
quite awesome I got written up in papers
and everything because it was highly
unique anyways and I started doing some
of the tactics that you've talked about
that everybody else was doing at the
time in order to gain rankings including
that grey hat pbn links from build my
rank and some of those and they had a
certain point I never got a manual
penalty but I did get algorithmic
penalty okay
and everything tanked gotcha yeah all
internet marketers usually have some
story like this so yeah so and I was
just I was still focusing on just
getting traffic and doing display ads
not not any affiliate stuff at that
point I got really irritated at Google
because there was a lot of work and a
lot of effort just like man I'm not just
not smart enough so I switched over to
viral type websites and I started a
viral video type website and it took off
and in fact it took off to the point
that I went viral on Facebook and had at
one point three million visitors in a
week that's staggering wait what year
was that by the way so yeah that was
let's see where was I I think that was
2015 okay so not too long Rab 14 in 15
that have to go look okay anyways I was
on media temple hosting at the time and
it broke media media temple they had
their selling point at the time as we
can scale no matter what happens you
found the breaking point
I found what was the video just curious
it was a video of this news report where
there was this horrible accident and
this girl was feeling like she was going
to die they she was trapped in the thing
and this priest came and went and prayed
with her and then disappeared huh
was speculating was it a an angel and so
it it just went viral yeah
interesting interesting okay so you you
did the viral site and then those are
really hard right like it's never it's a
treadmill you can't get off gotta beat
the beast yeah okay and I saw the
handwriting on the wall as Facebook kept
on tightening up its reach on his
Facebook pages you got less and less
return less and less people coming and
so I saw handwriting on the wall so I
went back to SEO took all my old
articles that I ranked previously
upgraded them put them on a different
website did all the right things and
built zero backlinks to it and now it
gets about forty to forty five thousand
visitors a month Wow okay great so and
this was the site that you had from back
in the day twenty eleven hundred days
okay
yeah Wow great so I'm gonna jump around
a little bit and I want to go back to
the site that is making almost a
thousand bucks a month is that the ones
right when you love him or know the new
one no it's a brand it's a brand new
site the one that's making a thousand
dollars a month it makes more money than
the site that gets between thirty and
forty thousand visitors a month okay
gotcha and can you tell us or how old is
that that site then do a new one yep the
new one it's ten months old I started it
back in July I think June or July into
June 1st of July ok of last year gotcha
I know you won't remember exactly but
can you kind of tell us about the
trajectory of the earnings in traffic
over time just to hopefully illustrate a
little bit of the sand like the Google
sandbox and what it's like the first six
months you're starting your site okay
I've made my first sale in six weeks it
was a decent product couple about three
hundred dollars i i target between a
hundred and five hundred dollar products
so it made its for sale it took three
months almost to the day to come out of
the sandbox but i did things to get it
to come out of the sandbox early okay
sure yeah because none of its none if
it's hard i started off as soon as I
launched it I did a press
release because new site being launched
blah blah blah it's genuine news so it
it works okay then I did I don't know
about twenty blog comments right in
there someplace I did 20 Korra answers
that pointed to the site and I did four
guest posts one of those came from your
tactic of establishing relationship with
blog comments sure okay and then I share
on Pinterest and on scoop it I don't
know if you're available or familiar
with scuba but you actually get a
backlink from it so okay Pinterest
backlinks Kupa backlinks just to give
social some presents yes got it and
that's what I did it took three months
and it was obviously came out because it
jump it was languishing at five to ten
visitors a day and the first jump was up
to between 50 and 75 gotcha
basically overnight right yeah okay just
a recap so press release 20 blog
comments for guest posts and some
sharing scoop it and Pinterest
alright yeah and Cora and Cora 20
answers on Cora nice yeah now for the
press release I've never done that I've
heard it's a piece of you know an early
launch strategy like you described is
there anyone that you would recommend
and it's okay if you don't because I
don't know who they are or anything so
don't go for the five-dollar press
release on fiber you get what you paid
for okay I went with human proof designs
their press release service okay you can
find a little bit better pricing but
their press release was good and I got
three hundred over three hundred
backlinks from different news websites
that have good authorities so they're no
follow but nofollow helps to write and I
I believe that as well plus I mean at
that point is it's brandable right it's
the brand name that's great to have
early on because that's that's what a
real website would have so yes okay
great thanks for sharing that cuz that I
mean some people do ask about the
sandbox and I've heard different
formulas and I've also heard like I did
the formula on this side
didn't work and then I did it on these
two and it did work so I think there
maybe he liked some variances other
there is variance sure I could I did
exactly the same thing on my second site
and it's now it's just now looking like
it's coming out of sandbox and it's been
over four months
gotcha okay how many posts did you have
on the site within that three-month
period what did you launch with I
launched immediately because I knew I
was gonna have the posts within two
weeks that have over ten okay it's
writing is not hard it's just it's
gotten kind of mind-numbing so I'm
learning how to delegate that but in a
three month period I probably had 30 to
40 posts on the site gotcha okay perfect
see once you got out of the sandbox you
were making a little bit more money
because you were obviously you know
getting ten times more traffic than you
were so from like months three through
ten can you kind of remember like a
couple of the the milestone points
basically did it grow like really fast
or what was the situation it was kind of
interesting I and I still find it
interesting today because the traffic
jumped in the first traffic jump we you
know we broke our hundred dollar mark
and that was a milestone you know $100
month and that was probably in month
three maybe month four and then it
jumped up to the five hundred dollar
range
fairly quickly it was you know by month
six for sure cuz well it went into
November November in December were $500
months and since I'm I'm not targeting
general consumers I'm targeting a
business I did not see a big Christmas
bounce hmm good to know
interesting yeah I found that
interesting as well because that's kind
of expecting yeah all right come on
Christmas and okay it was flat but then
January where in this niche new budgets
are figured out and released and what
they're gonna spend on different
products in January in February it
jumped up again and so January was like
700 February was eight hundred and
March was 967 gotcha and I take it
traffic is growing you're still adding
content actually I'm just now getting
back to it in January or December
December I went to another site to start
building a second site and so from
December until now I have been building
the second site and it's a huge site
it's not just a small one and from
December until today we have posted 378
posts I think articles that's that's a
lot and we got another 60 to go and then
we will be done with phase one Wow
yeah that's a huge site any tips for
people that are looking or thinking
about doing that type of you know sprint
of work you can't write it yourself even
if it's easy to write yes too much and
that's another thing I learned from you
is how to figure out how to hire writers
what I'm looking for how to do a
templates or a writer will put it into a
format that then I can just pretty well
copy and paste into my template and it's
done and so we I paid I think it's
around thirty six hundred dollars for
two hundred twenty articles plus I've
been doing the best lists and okay
buying guides some of the buying guides
I just recently found somebody did a
really good job with buying guides and
so do you have a like content editor who
does the formatting as well that's
something I haven't like when I do that
similar work team of writers one content
manager to do the formatting and stuff
and editing and that sort of just takes
me out of like the mechanics in a lot of
ways so do you have that same type of
role no well my wife does the editing
for spelling errors and grammar and that
kind of stuff so she cleans up the
articles a little bit if they're they
need a little cleaning up I finally
found a real English speaking writer
that it's obvious they grew up speaking
American English and
I don't have to worry about it as much I
do the formatting on the website but
that's because I actually kind of like
that okay I'm kind of geek when it comes
to making things look pretty yeah I mean
that's a key thing to understand what
you like doing and it drives me crazy so
I need to stay out of it I mean actually
I don't mind it it just I do it so much
slower than anyone else so I stand right
I can format of course I got systems in
place that just kind of work for me but
I can format a two thousand word article
in about a half an hour gotcha okay now
it sounds like you use some of the
templates that I give out for free by
the way if people are interested in the
templates there's a link below
probably for niche type project and
basically I give away all the templates
so if you just go there sign up for the
email list you can get it so you use my
templates primarily right the ultimate
Amazon review template I tweaked it some
just for what I'm trying to do but every
piece that is in your template is in
mine okay
and that actually you you answered or
started to answer the question that I
was gonna ask which is when you're
starting with like someone else's
templates how do you modify it for your
own use because basically if you just
take the templates it's a great starting
point but if people just use and copy
things directly they're kind of missing
the point so how do you customize things
for me what I do is I go looking around
I take the template and I know I want
all this content but how do I want to
present it and so I went to the wire
cutter I went to outdoor gear lab I went
actually and I liked it I went to the
top five lawnmower site that you did a
breakdown on and he had this little box
at the top that gave the bullet point
ratings and and stuff and I I went and I
stole it I go find things that I like
that I can add into the template so that
it is unique to my site okay and to
summarize so if people have a template
that they've gotten from somewhere else
it's great to use as a starting point
but then one should investigate see what
they like put their own spin on it and
customize it for their own site
basically yeah like the wire cutter the
wire
cutter has you know the the little box
with an hour pic and you know the just a
little bit of customization that they
put in that content well I went and I I
have a box that says editors choice and
first runner-up and honorable mention
just a little bit different but unique
to my site couple other questions this
one it's kind of referring back to the
viral site so I'm curious did you learn
anything on the viral project that you
are on that you can now apply to niche
sites as you're doing them now
headlines okay first of all get over the
thought that its clickbait because the
recent clickbait is clickbait is because
it works okay you can think it's
horrible or whatever but your purpose as
a business owner is to get people to
come and view your site so then it's
okay if you have clicked baby headlines
as long as you give them good content
and it's not just garbage right you know
for instance I have one headline on my
newer site and it's about a
smaller-sized guitar so I said it's
something to the effect of brand name
model name review the only time size
doesn't matter this is pretty good it's
clever it makes people smile yeah I
didn't even know what you were gonna say
that's a good one and that headline gets
clicks yeah and I mean it'll pay off if
you know it originated right this
question originated with the viral
sharing on social but I mean when you're
looking at the SERPs if you're targeting
a keyword a more interesting title
that's gonna get more clicks you know no
matter what in that all that helps the
rankings once you're on page one they
start judging which one is getting the
most clicks and you can out you can beat
some big sites if yours gets more clicks
than the top spot very cool awesome tip
now do you have any tips for people that
are just getting started and maybe
launched a site before but they haven't
really made any money what would you
tell them that some very ugly sites can
still rank I know from hi my first sites
they were pretty ugly they can still
rank and I say that not
because I want you to have an ugly sight
but I want you to stop stressing over
whether you have everything perfect and
get your feet wet you can learn that oh
that was a dumb mistake six months later
and fix it but if you wait until you
have everything all the knowledge you
need you're never gonna get started and
if you don't get started you're never
gonna you're never gonna learn because
guess what even if you spent the next
six months watching video after video
and reading blog post after blog post
until you actually do it you're not
gonna learn what works and doesn't work
well said Duke really appreciate it and
thanks for the time today well not a
problem my pleasure
awesome alright thanks Duke really
appreciate it and I'll give Duke another
shoutout he's actually one of them
moderators that helps out all the time
on the live stream so Duke I really
appreciate it I couldn't do the live
streams without help from moderators
like you so again if you want to hear
more from Duke be sure to leave a
comment if you have specific questions
feel free to ask I can you know always
bug Duke to help me answer some of the
questions about his site so thanks for
watching be sure to check out some of
the interviews with other successful
niche site owners like Ellen Wesley and
Jaron I'll put some links for those
interviews below and be sure to check
them out thanks
you
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