hey what's up duck Huntington here from
niche site project in this interview I
talked to Michael Kohler and he started
out as a digital nomad right out of
college actually a broke college student
he started making money on Fiverr at the
very beginning and now he's running a
SAS company a software company around
YouTube and Michael tells us his story
so let's go over to the interview now
hey what's up Doug Pennington here from
niche site project and I'm hanging with
my friend Michael what's going on
Michael hey what's up man thanks for
having me on your show man appreciate it
so I'm doing sort of a series on like
digital nomads and location independent
stuff and people that make money online
and make a living online so that's why
we're talking to you Michael today now a
lot of people probably don't know who
you are
so can you tell me what you're doing now
like where you're located and how you
got to where you're at right so my name
is Michael Kohler I actually used to be
a digital moment right now I settle down
a little bit I'm in Frankfurt Germany
six years ago five to six years ago I
also got a YouTube channel by the way
and I got started on Fiverr basically
because my whole story is I kind of like
wanted to make money online because back
then I was like a broke college student
and stuff didn't have any money so all I
did was I went through Google like most
online marketers actually and typed in
how to make money online right so all I
found there though was like stuff where
you could fill out surveys and get paid
like 50 cents per survey or something I
actually did that
and there was like a payout limit of
like 50 bucks and I made like $20
filling out like a hundred service or
something so I quit doing that and then
I found luckily I found out fiverr.com
and that's where I got really started
you know I kind of managed to make like
a few sales on there like five bucks
here five bucks there but then I became
like level two seller and made more and
more sales so in the end I kind of I
ended up making around ten thousand
dollars just on fiverr.com and I used
that money to reinvest it into my own
sites where I started selling SEO
services social media services and
that's how I basically built up an
agency I got more and more clients more
and more
here inclines and right now what I may
be doing is I got my youtube channel we
got a software out called video sniper
Pro and we do all kinds of stuff when it
comes to selling services and also set
up digital info products and stuff so
that's basically how my business looks
like right now
got it so you did the full gamut you
have a whole suite of things that you're
working on so well let's rewind a little
bit and you said you were in in college
so did you finish your degree what was
your degree in or what were you studying
that's right I graduated like two years
ago and my degree was it was called
multimedia marketing so it's basically
kind of like just traditional marketing
focusing more like on the online stuff
you know got it so it's actually pretty
tightly related to what you're doing
like you learn this yeah now you're like
doing real stuff yeah basically I didn't
even learn it I mean I I basically got
started around the same time with
business like I started around the same
time I started college you know so
that's where the whole fiber thing
happened that's why I got a little bit
into it and I can remember it was like
two years into my college career I
already made like six fears per year
while I was in college so online just
online so very yeah and but you stuck it
out and you finished it yeah I mean I
was already so far so it wouldn't really
make sense to just quit and it wasn't
even that hard anyways what's not like
you study like to become a doctor or a
lawyer or something it's like if you do
the same thing it's kind of easy to like
just do it you know got it okay cool so
and where you mentioned several
tentacles of your business like what's
like the primary focus what are you most
interested in I guess right it used to
be services social media marketing
services and SEO services but we kind of
Swit this year we kind of switched into
focusing more on software development
and actually selling software because we
are also proudly trying to like in the
in the very long run actually sell parts
of the company or even the whole company
so and that's where you really can make
a lot of money if you have an actual
customer base of thousands of customers
who pay you monthly that's really where
the big money is online you know got it
got it so and I do want to
talk about the services business a
little bit so I know I actually tried to
do some service work particularly like
right after I got laid off I needed to
bring some money in services are a great
way to get started you know you launch
from Fiverr and scaled it up to an
agency so what are like that the issues
the challenges of running a services
business that people don't tell you
about right right I mean the biggest
challenge is that people don't talk
about is simply keeping customers
actually keeping them and keeping them
satisfied right and making structuring
everything that the infrastructure is so
good that there are no problems and
stuff you know because when you have and
also this whole scaling part of it is
also a relatively big problem because
what a lot of people don't realize is I
mean it's easy to get started and get
like 1 2 3 4 5 clients that pay you a
thousand bucks per month but once you
want to get like 50 60 80 clients who
pay you that same money you're not going
to do it yourself so you will have some
struggle especially if it's online to
find the right people to actually work
from you for you so most of the time if
you're trying to hire like a VA from
India or something to do actual work for
you it works on a smaller scale but
they're probably not capable to actually
deliver real services for high-paying
clients right so you have to have a good
team and you have to have a good
infrastructure in place that's always
the the the very first thing that I tell
people you know yep
and for from from my perspective like I
had a corporate job and I got laid off
and you know was doing the services
stuff and I saw a path to scale it up to
you know six figures or more however I
would have just built myself a job with
an org chart and hierarchy and a team of
managers just like I had which where our
goal right is not to created the job we
had before or exact just a corporate
setting which is that what could happen
with an agency so yeah now you mentioned
that you you were a digital nomad it
sounds like you are location independent
now which I can totally right yeah well
I'm fully location independent I can
work where wherever I want really just
that I kind of like settle down to one
place because
right now at the moment it just prefer
to be in one place and just like focus
on my stuff rather than just traveling
but I could if I wanted to still you
know right well I was gonna say I mean I
arrived at the same point I probably
didn't travel as much as you did or as
many places as some of my friends or
going to but yeah it's kind of nice to
have like I mean my office is here even
though the guest bed is right right
behind me but it's nice to have like a
routine is that sort of one of the
reasons you settled down to help grow
the business and everything yes exactly
just for the business you know Joe so I
can have my daily routine and really
focus on just growing the business you
know because I mean traveling is really
nice and it versus some degree and stuff
but um I always think like when you're
constantly traveling you're constantly
busy with like different stuff but it's
just like you're not really focusing
that much really on your business are
you
you always have to travel like you
always have to find out what what's new
in a new place where you live where is
this where is that whereas when you just
like have one location at some point you
can just like 100 cent focus on your
business and nothing else you know yep
for sure for sure so and where are you
from by the way I'm actually from
Germany but not from Frankfurt but from
another part of Germany so okay cool
oh yeah I was gonna say your English is
like outstanding probably better than
mine so okay in I guess like shifting a
little bit more right so talking more
about your software business so what was
it like ramping that up it was actually
easier than I thought it would be but
that's probably because I I've been
working with a developer and he has a
team I've actually known this developer
for like two plus years you also work in
some other projects that we had before
with websites and stuff so it was pretty
straight forward basically all I had to
do is give him my idea and give him some
money and he did it but that's not the
case in all with with all businesses or
with all people because a lot of people
have have a lot of problems when it
comes to software development because
they either get scammed sometimes
because companies are charging them too
much companies are actually making a lot
of mistakes doing it developing your
software a lot of bugs and I was really
I was kind of lucky actually that I got
such a great developer in my team so it
was pretty straightforward we got the
software done within like two months or
something and yeah that was pretty
pretty
you know okay and how has it been like
attracting the customers it sounds like
maybe you had contacts with the agencies
like angle right so you you had a base
of people to sell to back like how was
that sales process ring was with our
software that we got out right now it's
a youtube SEO software right and before
we started the software I was actually
running a website called tube
millionaire and was basically like more
like a chorus website I mean we also had
like a youtube SEO service but the main
product was like a YouTube ranking
youtube SEO course so all the people who
are going through that course they're
already interested in a youtube SEO
software right so we already had a base
there so that allowed us to break even
on the whole software development thing
relatively quickly and what I want to
tell your viewers though and what a lot
of people get wrong is when it comes to
software marketing and promoting a
software a lot of people try to when
they have a software out they try to
promote the software itself like for
example they have a let's just take a
video marketing software and they they
try to promote it for video marketing
they say I to rank your videos it's not
what you should do you should give
people a what we call a business in a
box so you should tell people what they
can actually do like for example start
your own online business using YouTube
plus Amazon or whatever and in order to
effectively actually do that you have to
use the software so that's that's how
you create this urgency for people to
actually sign up for the software and
give them like so you also you always
should combined it with like information
stuff right with content marketing so
that's really the key to it sure and
like do you I guess do you have any
specific tips like some of the
informational like helpful content like
two or three tips for like youtubers
maybe like myself or other people
watching they just want to get a little
traction like what are some of your
hooks that you sink into people right
and make them want that software exactly
so the thing is when it comes to for
example YouTube what a lot of people try
to do is they just try to create videos
about all kinds of stuff and they think
it will work you know you always have to
make sure that you really know what your
target
audience is actually searching for like
so you have to do keyword research you
have to know what you're trying to rank
your videos for and once you know that
you you really you are forced to have to
actually rank your videos you know if
you don't rank them on the first page
unless you want to spend thousands of
dollars on Adwords if you don't do that
people will never find you right so
that's that's a little bit of a problem
for most people but once you really
understand that and you have relatively
good content I mean the content always
has to be good but if it's if it's even
if it's good oh I always say I would
rather have some mediocre content but
still rank everywhere rather than have
like good content and no one sees it you
know so that's like yeah in from you
know I do Amazon affiliate niche sites
primarily and it's a lot of the same
ideas it's just one is the written word
but you know for the organic search
traffic that I hope to get on my niche
sites
it's basically make sure people are
searching for it make sure it's sort of
profitable and make sure it's optimized
so right like as YouTube has changed
over over the years becoming more
advanced where they like like YouTube
understands what we're saying right like
I didn't realize this until recently but
they have their own like translator or
whatever they pops up so how is that
changed like with your software like as
your agency has grown and even the
course that you mentioned yeah right so
I'm with YouTube it kind of it's always
like the same thing at least right now
there's basically like one strategy that
you can rely to it's basically like you
have to rank your videos by reverse
engineering the YouTube algorithm based
on that you generate your perfect title
description and tags for your video and
that's basically like almost 85 to 90%
of the whole thing right so if you
that's what our software does it
actually goes out there and analyzes
your competition meaning all the people
who are already ranked for keywords that
you want to rank for and based on that
info we will create or our software will
create the perfect information for your
video for you to use so you can actually
rank it and this the second part though
is and a lot of people don't know that
is you actually have to push your video
once you up
Yeah right once you upload it you have
to push it with views and likes and our
software has like a what we call a
social engaging feature right so the
people who are registered with the
software they have the opportunity to
gain points by liking or by viewing your
video right so and they can exchange the
points later on for their own views and
stuff right so that book if your videos
like the initial traffic to actually be
ranked right because unless you already
have tons of subscribers and stuff
you're not going to get any views really
or you have a big social media or
something to start with most people
don't have that though so they don't get
any views like so they don't rank you
know gotcha and is that I've heard
people reference like in the first 48
hours you want to make sure that you get
good exactement yeah okay exactly
because that's the most important thing
once you upload a video on YouTube it
needs real it needs high retention views
meaning views where people at least
watch like 50 to 70 percent of your
video really fast so YouTube realizes
this is a video that actually provides
value but a lot of people do wrong is
they they get like fake bad views or
something so very where people only
watch like a few seconds of the video so
YouTube knows that this is fake because
no one just watches a few seconds and
this is a really bad video but um most
cases that's not the case so you've got
to make sure that there's value there
yeah
got it in like what is it good like rule
of thumb like how many views or
interactions or whatever does a video
need to gain traction obviously of
course that depends on the keyboard
competition because we always divide
between a high competition and a low
competition keywords for lower
competition keywords it's it only needs
around a thousand to two thousand views
to really gain traction you know like
really most like most of the videos are
ranked with a few thousand views
actually but when it comes to real it
always depends on how how the videos
look like on the first page of the
keyword you're trying to rank for right
so if all the videos on the first page
have like a hundred thousand views
you're not gonna rank it with only like
a thousand views right sure you need you
need to be in that same kind of spectrum
you know interesting interesting
yeah I've obviously I have a YouTube
channel right that's where this is going
to be published but
it's interesting I mean I know the
things that you're talking about but
there's a lot of areas where like oh I
could I could give a little bit more of
a push on social on the Facebook side
and yeah I have an email list I could
send people directly to that in the
first 48 hours so there's a lot of you
know I'm sure there's a lot of stuff
that I'm like leaving on the table just
lazy when whenever I publish a new video
I send it out to to my email all my
email list I send it out on Twitter I
usually post a an Instagram story and
stuff where a lot of people are seeing
it so that that's all that's all stuff
to get you these initial views you know
and a lot of people forget that you need
a lot of initial views once you posted a
video to really rank it you know yeah so
it's like once you publish it that's
only you know you're halfway there or
maybe only 20% of the way you're gonna
really push that see traction a whole
optimization thing I mean people always
think like they they put so much work
and effort into the video creation part
and then they think all they have to do
is click publish and then it's all done
you know but the real work just starts
once you've already uploaded and done
your video you know cool cool cool so in
sort of shifting gears a little bit to
talk specifically about your channel
because a lot of people again they
probably haven't checked out your
channel yet like what kind of stuff do
you publish there and then I went to
geek out on like camera gear in a second
but like yeah what kind of stuffs on
your channel most of the time I publish
tutorials internet marketing related
making money online related how to get
more social media engagements all kinds
of stuff right all kinds of tutorials
every now and then I do some live
streams where I do Q&A is we're engaged
with my audience answered their
questions but it's basically what I'm
focusing on right now like I really try
to create a lot of value when it comes
to online marketing and make money
online and I talk about everything
Facebook Ads AdWords - and of course the
whole organic stuff free free traffic
stuff you know and yeah that's basically
what I do
awesome awesome and so you're doing some
sort of like the live streams and sort
of a little vlog type content right but
not too much mainly tutorials mainly
tutorials I'm trying to switch this a
little bit up like in the next year and
stuff make it a little bit more
painting and stuff you know maybe get
more vlogs and and stuff like this you
know but I'm still planning on doing
that you know got some nice stuff
planned so cool yeah I know
like for me I have a lot of tutorials
too but like we kind of we want to share
a little bit of our personal side and
like be a little creative so I totally I
understand what you're saying I want to
be a little more entertaining too so
yeah well and do you have any like
sophisticated camera gear or do you just
shoot on your phone or like what do you
got going on over there no I got an
actual camera it's like a $2,000 camera
I think it's like a sony alpha 7 2 or
something what it's called I'm not
really sure and I got a a road mic right
here that's the one I used to record but
just that's just it you know a camera a
nice camera and a mic that's really all
you need actually you don't even need
that much fancy stuff I mean I'm just I
used to be a lot into like photography
and videography when I was younger when
I was a teenager so I'm really I'm kind
of interested in that anyways so I just
got a nice camera and stuff because I
want the quality to be really good
because I just enjoy that so but you
don't really necessarily need this when
you're starting out you know that's also
something a lot of people make wrong
does it oh I don't have a good camera I
don't have this I don't you just need a
webcam really or or a phone camera
everyone has a phone now so everyone can
basically start you know yeah and I was
gonna say the quality of like the
cameras on phones is ridiculous now
compared to right you know what it was
so but I I too had like a little
photography bug back in the day so yeah
I like to geek out hundun on the gear
and just get more than I need and just
cause it's a fun hobby so yeah right on
well I guess do you have any other sort
of like parting thoughts for people that
are thinking about getting started
specifically on YouTube I know that
that's kind of like where you're
spending a lot of your time and it ties
into your product so if someone's
thinking of starting YouTube channel do
you have any tips for them as a beginner
the first tip that I want to give people
is to just do it like I mean no matter
which niche you're in you just go out
there and make the first 5 or 10 videos
and try to get as much traffic to them
as possible and just see how it goes
because that's where most people already
fail like 80% of people already fail
because they
don't get started don't put too much
thinking into it just just keep doing it
and you will get better over time like
when you go back on my channel and watch
my very first like tutorials where just
where don't even show my face I'm just
talking stuff you will see a big big
difference to do tutorials I got going
on right now and the second thing of
course is when people try to want to
start a business online is don't get
into like the whole the too fancy stuff
too fast because unless you have tons of
money to spend and to try things with
just try to get like more like an agency
more like some service based stuff going
try to get a feel for it where just you
like monthly stuff monthly services for
people and stuff for businesses and get
going that way I'm soon launching a new
program called the video agency
marketing program that's gonna be really
interesting for most people because they
are can I will show you exactly how you
can start a YouTube video agency and
ranking clients volcko Cline's youtube
videos and that's really that that's a
good that's gonna be really good
actually so uh yeah yeah that's actually
a great market where like obviously
YouTube is continuing to grow I'm
spending you know more time watching
videos versus like podcasts it was
actually you know it's just it's moving
that way it's so easy to create videos
and I mean for a local business it's
probably you know it's a little easier
to rank a local business on YouTube
probably than like some competitive SEO
term like make money online that's kind
of a tough one yeah that's the reason
why I'm telling people that you know I
mean in the end you know when you have a
keyword like how to make money online
there's only gonna be ten people maximum
in the world in the whole world who are
going to be ranked for that keyword
right so are you once yours once you try
to do that even especially as a beginner
you're already competing competing with
like the ten best people in the whole
world doing this right when it comes to
tube ranking and stuff so I always tell
people and there's so many people try to
make money online right now I always
start out with something easy to do like
building an agency of doing a service
based business rather than just going
for the for the big rankings first
unless you're really talented extremely
talented and have
have money already you know so bright
good advice good advice
alright Michael awesome really good
talking to you today where can people
find you or should we check check out
your stuff the best thing would be and
you can put a link in the description
also I think right yep video sniper pro
dot-com / stream that's basically a link
to a webinar that I'm hosting so that's
the best way for people to get started
with all my stuff you know it's a free
webinar people can just join and and
look what I what's going on and how
things work you know right on very cool
Michael yeah and I'll put the links
below so people can get to it easily and
thanks again great great talking to you
today
no problem it was very nice alright
thanks Michael really appreciate you
spending the time with us I'll put all
the links below so people can get to
Michael's channel see some of the stuff
he's working on and you know just
connect with Michael if you want to so
really appreciate it and if it's your
first time on this channel take a look
around I talked about Amazon affiliate
stuff project management and some just
general internet marketing so if you
liked it please consider subscribing
thanks
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