in this interview I talked to Madeline
Taylor from content refined content
refined is a full-service content agency
and content refined and I work together
on a project where we took ten different
posts from one of my sites and they
improve the content the results were
pretty amazing so in four weeks the
traffic went up to the specific post by
about 13% in four weeks so all we did
was update the content and then the
traffic went up very quickly
additionally when I looked at the
traffic from like this year 2019
compared to 2018 the traffic was up by
about 20 percent so I know all of that
isn't you know specifically related to
the content refined project and case
study that we worked on however it does
remove the seasonality when you compare
like one month this year to one month
last year so sometimes things go up and
down depending on like the time of year
and your niche and all that stuff so
that's why I compared to 2018 as well so
in this interview we talked to Maddie
get to know her a little bit then we
talked about this specific case study
that we did it's important for me to
mention that I am an affiliate for
content refined so if you purchase
through my link then I get a little bit
of a commission however you'll see the
check it out and Maddie and I also
talked about how to do the same type of
project without using their service if
you want to try it on your own so let's
get to the interview now hey what's
going on it's Doug Pennington here and
I'm sitting with Maddie how are you I'm
great how are you I'm doing really good
and you're from content refine but for
the folks that don't know you can you
give us a little intro about what you do
there and maybe a little tiny bit about
content refined yeah sounds great so my
name is is Maddie and I am the CEO and
co-founder of content refined which is a
small content marketing agency that's
based up in Canada and so what we what
we do is we help people small business
owners or anybody who even has like a
niche website we help them with their
content strategy and we helped them
create really great high quality content
that will hopefully drive more traffic
to their site awesome very cool and how
did you get involved with content
refined um well it's kind of it was kind
of an accident so basically I moved to a
really small town called Collingwood
Ontario I moved for love and I had left
a really great job in Toronto and so I
was sort of networking up here and and
meeting a bunch of new folks and I came
across this guy named John who I think
you know and John basically was had also
just left his big engineering job and
moved back to this small town and was
sort of launching this online business
world of his and and really following
that career path for himself and so he
was looking for for help and I was
originally hired on actually to help him
with his portfolio with money sites and
so what he had intended for my job to be
was basically to figure out a a really
good marketing strategy for his own
portfolio of money sites to really get
the process going for the for the
content creation piece and so we did
like a lot of research and a lot of a
lot of sort of procedure building and
built out this really awesome little
robust process of consistent content
creation and once that was that was done
we kind of launched it as a service and
so that's how content refined was born
gotcha and that is excuse me I don't
know what happened there but that is
authority website income it is so John
haver from authority website income so
I'll put a link to that in case people
aren't familiar but when I got started
online in 2013 John was at least
a couple years ahead of me so I
contacted him and we've had a good
relationship over the years so content
refined is an option because you guys
were doing so good with your well I mean
you had extra bandwidth and you were
like well people need this service right
yeah exactly and I mean I had kind of
worked myself out of a job at that point
because the the content was happening
and the creation process was so
automated that that I kind of had this
extra time and I really had worked
myself out of a job so we're like hey
let's wrap this up and put a little bow
on it and call it content or find and
launch it to people who who need this
service cool and how long ago was that
when you lunch consen refine that's
coming up to three years so this fall
will be three years okay awesome yeah
and what was your background like your
previous job and all that stuff
yeah prior to that I had been working in
in Toronto at a medical technology
startup so a little bit different yeah a
little more more technical but yeah it
was basically like a software
development agency and and we created
created some medical platforms for
doctors gotcha and then what did you do
there I was a project manager actually
so in terms of so my skill set from
there to come and procedural eyes the
crap out of something with something was
something that I was pretty used to and
the documentation piece was something
that I I was very strong at so it it was
a good fit just a bit of a shift of
gears I got to know anything about
marketing um or content or SEO really
before that so it was it was brand new
to me and so it's been it's been a lot
of a lot of work but a lot of fun gotcha
okay yeah that's pretty cool I have a
similar background and I think the thing
you mentioned is like being able to like
look at a process and then document it
and then have other people do it like
project managers have to do it all the
time but like if you haven't done it
before it's really hard cuz like people
will write down what they
thank and then give it to the team or
whatever and then the team has questions
and then you know they want to blame the
team but it's really you know you didn't
document it well yeah yep
- merci I actually I see that you've got
a PMP designation here on your on your
skype so I was wondering what that was
all about yep yep so I got my PMP did
you get your sit back in there I never
actually officially got the the
designation but but I would consider
myself a project manager sure you know
it's just jumping through a lot of Hoops
and then paying a lot of money a lot of
money but then once you get it you just
keep it active so I've done that so okay
the reason why we're here today is we're
talking about content upgrades which
shouldn't be confused with the email
marketing thing of content upgrades
we're talking about taking content and
improving it to basically get more
traffic so can you tell me about how you
guys got this idea for I guess now it's
a product but it's a strategy we're
gonna talk about step by step how to do
it so take me through that a little yeah
sure so I guess it started it wasn't
actually our idea when it came to us
from from clients wanting the service so
we were you know in the in a sec of
really understanding like driving
factors and and ranking factors for
brand new content but we weren't really
focused on existing content and it
wasn't until we had like you know a
handful of clients come to us and say
hey you know like I've already targeted
this keyword um I got like a 3,000 word
blog post on this topic I don't want to
rewrite the whole thing like I don't
want to have a brand new piece of
content about a keyword that I'm already
targeting that seems like a bad ROI can
can we figure out how to sort of like
refresh this existing content to make it
useful again and so that's sort of where
we got the idea and then with that with
the help of you know like we always do
you know we test things out and with the
help of different tools
we figured out a really good system on
how we could predictably improve certain
pieces of content so that they would
perform well on search engines and so
once we got that that process sort of
nailed down that's when we launched it
as a standalone service and it's it's
been very popular and the what's
interesting about it is that the results
show immediately because these pieces of
content are already indexed and they're
already ranking so it just really gives
them a bump which has been interesting
to see in document yes and I know I've
done this strategy in the past but
without as much like a rigorous process
so I knew that it was gonna work and I
was gonna say we can mention that we're
working together some right so I had I
have a website and content refined
worked with a few of the posts about ten
post over there and I will be sharing
this and like the show notes and stuff
like that so people could check it out
there will be an accompanying blog post
as well but in general traffic for the
ten post over the course of like four
weeks or so went up by almost 13 percent
so twelve point eight three percent and
the individual posts some of them only
went up by ten percent some of them went
down just a little bit which could be
seasonal or something else but a few of
the post went up by like a hundred and
some-odd percent like multiple times the
amount of traffic that they were getting
before so again this was just in four
weeks traffic went up by about 13
percent on these ten post so it
definitely works in like you said the
cool part is Google already likes the
post so it's just a matter of like
optimizing and them in the right way
right and it's not about um yeah it's
not about basically waiting for
something to become indexed and then
waiting for things to you know get slow
slow traffic you know it's it
an immediate bump and we see it right
away which is cool yep and it's like if
you're doing on-page on-site work
typically you'll you'll have the changes
happen faster the impact happens faster
versus you know if you're if you're
building links it could take a little
while for those to come into play or
like you said if it's a brand new post
then you have to wait a little while for
things to happen so we will take you
through the process and Maddie I think
this is where I'm gonna not know as much
about what you guys do so what can we
just go like step by step on how you do
this yeah for sure so um I guess we'll
start with like the initial phone call
so I'll jump in a call with a
prospective client who who wants this
service and will sort of go through
their site their goals their will pull
will scrape the site with for some data
and analytics to sort of understand
where their strong suits are and where
they could improve so we'll do this
thing called like a Content audit I
think we did it for your site right
we're where we'll pull some pull some
data from the site and and then
understand exactly like what posts are
ranking for what and then what yeah what
articles are not performing as well as
they should be based on the keyword that
they're targeting and based on the
metrics associated with that keyword so
we generally like to go for keywords
that have a pretty high search volume
but a lower competition so if we see
that there's a keyword like that that is
not ranking very well for a post and we
know that that's probably a good a good
place to start for an upgrade and so
then we'll take a deeper dive into that
post and see where else we can optimize
it to get it to rank for related key
terms and so that's when a tool so sorry
back tracking we will present the sort
of client audit present a set of
recommendations for
posts that we should upgrade and then
the client will say yea or nay in your
case you said yay for about 10 of them
and then we will start with the actual
upgrade so the upgrade is essentially
we'll we'll use this tool called market
Muse I think we've spoken about it a few
times before and we'll plug the existing
article into market Muse we'll plug in
the the targeted keyword as well as the
targeted like a article title and then
we'll have the article analyzed through
this tool this tool is really
interesting because it basically scrapes
the web for any other related article to
that topic and will give you
recommendations on how to improve your
article so that it will hopefully beat
out the competition right and so what it
will do is it will spit out a list of
key word variants that you should be
sprinkling through your text and it will
give you a set of like content gaps that
your writer should write about and so
those are really great for like
additional little pieces of content to
fit into your existing article because
it's identifying this tool is
identifying the the like subjects that
you have not touched on that will make
your article better and that will make
Google recognize it as a as a piece of
content that is in-depth and that is
well researched and that is useful to
the readers so once we understand sort
of all those content gaps different
keyword variants we will compile that
into a bit of a content brief and then
we will sit like well we'll go through
the existing content and we will come up
with like a list of questions that we
think the the post should aim to answer
and so we'll add those questions into
the brief and then we'll send that off
to the writer
so once the writer get that brief
they'll go through
the post to understand soar like the
tone and like the what's already been
sort of covered and then they will work
on sort of creating additional content
that fits really really well and
congruent with the post and then once
that's done they'll send it off to us
will will plug it through market means
to make sure that it is that that the
content score has improved and that it
based on market Muse should predictably
rank on on a search engine better than
it did before and then we will publish
it for you got it okay and I'm gonna
that was very good like a good
explanation and it concise away so that
was amazing Mattie yeah it's good you
are you gotta take a breath no no it's
all good but I'm gonna go back and ask
like there were certain pieces that I
know some people were gonna wonder about
so back it's step one you mentioned like
you know quote high search volume can
you give like an example or some ranges
where it's worthwhile to look to do this
yeah totally I think that varies from
like niche to niche but do you say niche
or niche and American Americans yep you
know it's it might some of you are is my
domain name so I just I'm just leaning
into it so okay I'm Canadian so I say me
you can do this yeah I guess it's the
French way it's is correct I think
you're correct
yeah oh okay well mo Canadians mostly
are correct no but all joking aside
depends on what niche you're in and so
rule of thumb I would say anything over
a thousand but if it's in sort of a less
competitive me
I would do anything over 500 okay and I
think one I guess maybe a guideline that
people could use it although you could
tell me I'm wrong is if you just look at
the keywords that you're ranking for and
you see like most of them are you know
high then you probably have a higher
range that you need to aim for and if
most of yours are pretty low I mean
maybe I know a lot of people use the
keyword golden ratio that are watching
this or they're familiar with it anyway
and maybe a lot of their keywords are in
the you know 300 range so in that case
maybe you aim in the 300 to 500 range
and you're just kind of looking at a
smaller window so is that an OK way to
look at it absolutely yeah and then I
think you also we're going to talk about
search volume we should talk about
competition score as well and basically
anything that it has like a higher
percentage in the competition it's going
to be harder to rank for so we look for
anything sort of under 30 percent okay
and what tools are you using for that
competition difficulty so yeah we use a
number of different tools but right now
our favorites are a tress as well as SE
cockpit it's a Swiss marketing apps
platform and although although it's kind
of slow it does spit out really good
good data okay and I haven't used that
one but I've heard of it
a trust is really good I used to brush
as well and I've been playing with kW
finder which seems to have a pretty good
metric as well so yeah yeah actually we
did you ever take a look at the massive
data analysis study that we did on
different tools I I saw that it was out
there and then I produced it yeah okay
cool so that was a couple years ago now
so I'd be interested to sort of revisit
that and see what what tools what other
tools and if there
any new tools out there that we haven't
discovered yet to see sort of what their
what their predictability of ranking is
so I'd be interested to revisit this
conversation in like August if we if we
decide to revisit that yeah I think yeah
refresh of that article would be
interesting but yeah it's really hard I
mean I think some of the tools like I
remember longtail Pro had like their
competition was a keyword competitive
competitiveness metric the Casey stat
which was really good in the beginning
but then over time it became like less
accurate and like yes not very useful
and I don't know if they've refreshed it
or anything like that so yeah yeah and
moving on
speaking of tools you mentioned market
Muse and it for people that don't know
it's a very sophisticated like
data-driven like content analysis tool
is very expensive though so really you
could only afford it if you're like a
Content agency like content refined or
if you have like a media company
basically so can you talk a little bit
more about like what market Muse can do
I know you mentioned it analyzes the
competition it analyzes content related
to the terms but what kind of like other
information I know you mentioned some of
it but I kind of want to just dive a
little deeper for the people that never
use market muse yeah for sure so market
muzak Chua ly it's growing and it has a
bunch of added functionalities that we
need to sort of explore since we haven't
really done that yet
but for the purpose of content refined
we use it extensively for for content
planning and mapping and for content
analyzing so we we use it to edit every
single piece of content that we deliver
to our clients whether it's new or
whether it's upgraded content and so
what what it's great for is is that it
gives you like differ
keyword variance that you should be
using and it will like recommend where
you should even place them like it's
really it's a really really
sophisticated sophisticated tool and
we've done a ton of studies on it that
that basically that basically say that
the use of the extensive use of market
Muse leads to content that does perform
better and so I think that it's likely
because of the fact that it helps you
with your content briefing with like
suggestions of different subtopics some
suggestions of keyword variants
suggestions of like questions that you
should be aiming to answer throughout
your or any given text and and then yeah
just like the the being able to compare
it to any other subject on the Internet
or sorry with any other blog article on
that subject on the Internet is is a
really really useful functionality to
have so I think I think it's a great
tool I think that it's a very expensive
tools expensive but I I do think that it
gives us that competitive advantage on
the market yeah I agree a hundred
percent I've used a couple other tools
and they give you a piece of the
information but it doesn't do the
keyword variance as well and I mean I
understand why it's so expensive I mean
they're pulling so much data and then
they're analyzing and parsing it and
then reorganizing it and like extracting
what you care about all those key word
variants so I mean we could talk about
it conceptually and see how it works but
I imagine you know it's it's expensive
to pay for the servers to run all that
stuff in the background which is why
it's so expensive and the huge value
that it brings I mean it's like a
no-brainer for content we're fine to use
it and I imagine like big
media companies that just do tons of
content that makes sense to well so it's
a great tool and you could so there are
some cheaper tools that can kind of do
some stuff
yeah like cognitive SEO yeah yeah do you
know any others I cognitive SEO is sort
of our if if market Muses servers are
down or something
we'll use cognitive SEO we think it's we
think it's a great tool we're actually
just finishing up a data analysis study
with them to see whether we should be
working with them more often gotcha
and I know there's page optimizer pro
which I'm an affiliate for so everyone
be aware of that but it provides really
good information as well but it's not
quite as like user-friendly I guess okay
and I haven't played with it as much so
everyone just remember that caveat so
you aware yeah okay so moving on you do
the analysis about how much content is
added cuz Contin refine like is they do
everything right yeah okay so about how
much content is added do you have images
like what's the extent of additional
content yeah so again it it kind of
depends on like the suggestion for
market means but usually we'll end up
adding between anywhere between 500 and
a thousand words of content to fill up
those content gaps and then of course
we'll we'll add in new images we'll
place new links and that's that's
basically oh and and we'll update like
so say it's a blog from like 2016 and it
references 2016 throughout the text a
lot will update that to like 2019 and
make sure that it's like current and
that the stats if you have like a blog
post that has a bunch of statistics just
to make sure that they're updated and
current okay yeah that makes sense
any other like observations on the
process or if someone was trying to do
it on their own and he said suggestions
that's that's pretty much it
I would suggest cleaning it like it if
it's a say so a lot of the time when we
perform this service it's because
somebody's just bought a brand new site
so they they've just bought all of this
content that they don't really know
anything about and some of its not
performing well and then we'll go
through it and they'll be like okay this
is written terribly like this is
something that we need to completely
rewrite like this was not a native
English speaker who wrote this let's
let's clean it up so we will also edit
it extensively to make sure that it's a
high quality and and written correctly
because that matters right yeah yeah
that's a great point so I can imagine
people buying science and then they
obviously are trying to get like an ROI
and like if they can go and improve I
don't know let's say they have they buy
the site with a hundred postmates and
they get like 20 of them done running
the 80/20 right like thinking like a
yeah I mean
they can make a huge difference on
different the traffic on their earnings
within potentially just a month or
something like that yeah amazing do you
guys have some case studies on this oh
definitely yeah we have lots of case
studies on this um that I can share and
this in the show notes if you'd like yep
so that that's perfect I'll include
those and I suspect maybe some of my
information will be in there at some
point I'm not sure but yeah cool so one
of the other things that you guys have
over content refined is templates to do
some stuff and you mentioned that maybe
the audience can get a hold of those
templates how can they do yeah yeah so
I've got a podcast special page that
essentially allows anybody listening to
this who wants to check it out
allows them to go
go in and download a bunch of different
templates that will allow them to write
different styles of article or sort of
different styles of articles using the
content or find templates and so those
are templates that we use internally
that we send to all of our writing team
to make sure that they're all sort of
right in the same style the same format
so it's super helpful if if you're
starting out and you're doing some of
your own posts or if you've got like a
writer in-house and you'd like to sort
of procedural eyes things a little bit
better then then you can use those and
and that should help with the content
creation side of things
perfect thanks a lot for that and
everyone I'll I'll put links in the
description and all that so if you're
driving in your car you don't have to
figure out how to write it down so all
right well thanks a lot Maddie is there
anything else before we head out I don't
think so great well everybody check out
content refined and like I said I'll put
links and stuff for all the things that
we talked about so thanks again Maddie
thank you so much for having me thanks
again to content refined and Maddie for
taking the time to chat with me I think
it's also important to note that I paid
for the content I paid for the service
from content refined
they didn't like give it to me so that I
would promote it I wanted to test out
the actual service and see what would
happen so it is important for me to
actually be a paying customer and bring
my you know maybe slightly biased but
not too biased opinion I mean the point
is in four weeks I got traffic to go up
with very little action of my own so it
worked out great for me I highly
recommend you check out content refined
especially if you have content that can
be improved what they can do for you is
have a look do sort of a mini audit of
your existing content and then let you
know where your best opportunities are
if you don't have content that needs to
be improved yet well you can have
content refined right you're kind
for you and it's a whole full
full-service kind of situation so you
can give them the keywords or generally
what you're going for and they will
write the content though the images they
will put it in WordPress for you if you
want and basically take care of
everything
in fact they will do keyword research
for you as well if you just have like
the broad topic of what you're going for
they can narrow it down and you know
help you target exactly what you're
looking for
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