hey what's going on
welcome to the Doug show my name is Doug
Huntington and in this episode I talk
about six things that I learned about
making money online and this is a
special episode because I have a guest
host a good friend runs to Phan ski
we've both been working online for a few
years we started you know doing this
stuff on the side and we actually met
each other online not not in person but
we met each other early on in our
journeys when we were you know actually
not making much money at all and then
over time we've gone to you know do this
full-time so we just have a candid
conversation and quick note Ron blogs
over at the one hour professor so be
sure to check that out additionally he's
been on a couple other episodes so look
through the podcast episodes and if you
haven't listened to those then you
should they're very good episodes so
let's get to the conversation now the
six things we learned about making money
online hey what's going on it's Doug
Huntington here and I'm here with Ron so
how you doing today Ron I'm good man I'm
good how are you doing really good doing
really well today I'm like caffeined up
I have a few interviews to do so you
didn't tell me that part yeah I'm
feeling pretty good now you've been on
the show a few times but can you just do
a super quick intro just so people kind
of know what you're all about if they
haven't heard the other episodes yet
yeah definitely
well first off thanks for having me back
appreciate it always loved to be here my
name is Ron Stefanski I've been at this
internet marketing game for probably now
it's probably been about 12 years total
including my corporate job I've actually
been doing my own entrepreneur stuff for
about eight years
that I think is about that number but
yeah I started a website or multiple
websites over the years have failed
multiple multiple times but I have found
a lot of success with a lot of hard work
and now I basically have a portfolio of
websites and one of the things that I do
that's I think different than other
people is that I logged all of my income
on income reports over at one our
professor comm a lot of all the income
and all of my websites and talked about
that every month and talked of all the
different things so yeah that's pretty
much my intro cool and if people haven't
checked out the other two episodes
search for it I'm sure you can find it
I'll put links somewhere in the show
notes but you could find it if you try
and today we're gonna talk about six
things that we learned making money
online now before we get to we're gonna
have a little small talk I haven't
chatted with Ryan in a couple weeks but
it sounds like you've had an eventful a
couple weeks so what what happened to
him so like and I'm sure that this
because I was recently on your podcast
I'm sure this is completely unrelated
and just bad luck
but basically what an up happening was I
believe the the plugin is called contact
form 9 which is super super popular out
there and I have to process I have a lot
of processes of my business and one of
those processes is every month at the
beginning of the month I'll update all
the plugins for all of my websites I do
it all one time for all websites at one
time make sure I check everything you
know what all that so in between my last
update and you know this last month
there was a vulnerability that came out
onto that plugin and basically I had
some not all but some of my websites
that are in my portfolio get hacked
which was a miserable experience I
haven't slept much that's why I kind of
look a little you know it's it's a
little shaggy here I'm dressing a little
sloppy wearing a hat because I'm just
like it's been a rough it's been a rough
week trying to figure this stuff out and
it was pretty pretty brutal so basically
what was happened
was my hacked websites there was malware
on him and what was occurring was that
the individual was able to get admin
access rights to five of my websites
they were able to get into my Google
Webmaster Tools or my search console
they were able to submit sitemaps on
behalf of my website and I was getting
pages indexed in Google that were very
unsavory pages for instance at one point
if you and don't do this if you're
watching but if you actually putting
into Google child porn hub I was on that
front page for one of my websites which
is terrible not a place you want to be
so yeah so I basically worked with my
developer or he was having a really hard
time figuring out I went on and hired
like a different developer a little more
expensive he actually figured it out
yesterday night so it but yeah it was
pretty pretty brutal like one of my
websites had over a hundred thousand
index pages on Google that were all crap
and basically what would happen was
people would see in the search results
and they would click on the search
result it would bring them to another
website and then guess what that website
had malware so it was just infecting all
the computers so it was like it was it
was the first time I've ever dealt with
it and to talk about why it happened or
how to not have that happen use
wordfence I know that that's a free
plugin I actually use web
ARC's ARX I got it on an app sumo deal
it's really good too but no matter what
even if you have a really small website
use it because it blocks everything and
I also found out that if somebody hacks
into one website they can actually hack
into all the websites on that server and
I have a dedicated server so like I
didn't know this stuff I've never done
it I usually had the security but I
didn't for this one website cuz I'm like
yeah that's new no one's even gonna find
it
they found it yeah it was it was awful
it was it was truly awful it was it's
been a rough one but yeah I've been
fighting and trying to get pages D index
from Google pages that I don't want in
there and you know I now that we got
this part taken care of I'm gonna I'm
gonna basically the solution is you you
get rid of the malware you have to hire
a specialist for it
you get rid of it and then you have to
go to Google and resubmit your sitemap
and then edit your robots.txt file this
gets a little technical but edit that
file to make it so that the URLs that
you know are getting indexed no longer
gonna index so a huge headache but a
good learning experience something I'm a
I'm a writer you know do a video or
write up something because it was like
wow like I've never you know I've never
dealt with that so it was miserable but
it sounds terrible yeah that is did you
like off-site backups I do actually
you showed me one of them so I use so I
use SiteGround
big fan of SiteGround they actually go
back up everyday which is awesome and
you could have that in in theory yes if
your if your question is would you have
rolled it back yes but then the problem
was it was in one of the files that it
would have impacted would have been a
file that basically would have deleted
all the posts that we posted and I post
between all of my websites I don't even
know 15 to 20 posts a week so it's like
that would be a lot of work so yes in
theory if you don't have much you could
have done that but yeah I use off-site
bet our site ground does it and then I
also use I think it's managed WP was the
other one that you showed me too which
is awesome by the way thanks for the
intro of that I also backup there cuz
their redundancy I think is a good thing
just in case in case my host fails me in
some way so yep totally agree I think
yeah so manage WP that's what I use and
it's off-site backups it's really easy
to like restore if something happens in
like I'm not at least currently right
now I'm not publishing as much as you're
talking about but yeah you could have
potentially restored back from like 15
days or something whatever it makes
sense but you'd lose potentially
whatever 30 articles that you'd have to
like redo and have someone re-published
or whatever yes and I could have like
copied all the code and then pasted into
other sheets and then done the rollback
and then put it on but it was just like
you know what let's just try to let's
try to find it you know that'll be
easier I think the path to least
resistance and it worked
thankfully the guy that I just got it
awesome so yeah man well I'm glad
figuring it out and again yeah that
that's terrible
luckily knock on what I haven't had any
issues like that but I've I've seen some
friends with malware hence that's why
I'm like okay I could do backups and at
least you know I'm not doing constant
updates oh yeah yeah like it like I said
the biggest thing I know wordfence is
one of them that's free out there web a
Rx is the one that I use that are even
know if that's free or not ik I got it
on the app Zumo deal but no matter how
small your website is if it's on a
server just put it on there it does even
if you don't intend on making it big or
you think I'll just be a small project
just do it trust me it's much easier to
deal with what I just dealt with oh yeah
for sure alright well let's let's get
into the topic for today and it is six
things that we've learned about making
money online over the last few years and
I know when I first got started I really
didn't know anything about anything and
it all sounded sort of scammy
to be honest with you because even a
nice guy like pat flynn was telling
stories and when I checked out his
income reports I thought this is crazy I
think he was making like 50km lines
around the time when I started following
him and I was like that's insane
like that's completely insane and you
know it's mostly passive at least from
his perspective so I was like this is
crazy and there was so much that I
didn't know at the time and have learned
very slowly and I assume right now I'm
just as ignorant just in different ways
you don't know what you don't know exact
it's really that's true so number one on
our list is it's conceptually easy but
it's a lot harder than you think it's
going to be especially once you get
started so run what do you think of this
specific point here
I completely agree I mean I to kind of
you know talk about what my experience
was that I remember I found Pat Flynn -
I think most I mean a lot of people
especially when you're first starting
you find Pat Flynn you just end up there
somehow I don't even know how it
happened and I remember I was looking at
I was like I can crush this little guy
cuz you get you gonna remember I came
from
the corporate experience right like I
had I had a lot of digital marketing I
was a digital marketing manager by trade
like I was like I can crush this guy I
know exactly what to do but uh and I
created my first website and I was like
I conceptually add your something I can
sexually understood everything I
completely failed though so it's like
even someone who was experienced and I
basically had to relearn a lot of
different things so like I completely
agree with you I think that most people
you know I also thought it was scam me I
absolutely did I thought it was scamming
then I found him and I was like wow this
guy actually shares income reports he's
doing his thing and he inspired me
obviously to share my own so like when I
did it was like yeah this guy's you know
this actually looks legit and then I
tried it and failed so like it is easy
to understand how it works but it's all
in the execution 100% agree with you yep
and and just to like demonstrate like
some of the very easy concepts right so
we have a couple listed here you can
have an ad based site and that's kind of
you know that's sort of where you
specialize Ryan where you have
informational content you're showing
Adsense or Medianet or some other ad
network affiliate marketing that's what
I specialize in so I have like product
reviews and people go there to get more
information so very simple and then we
could talk about you know finding low
competition keywords the longtail you
know all these sexy sort of jargon or
buzzwords and jargon so the you end up
like oh yeah like I get it in the funny
thing is I remember when I first when I
first started I learned just enough so
that I could like explain it to other
people and I thought I knew everything
right so like I could imagine what an
asshole I sounded like it parties right
where I was like oh well you just do
this and that and then of course someone
could be like what are you doing that
are you making any money like well no
I'm just getting started this is exactly
what I did like my when our professor
website that now you know I focus with
the income reports but when I started it
I was like I'm just gonna create courses
and I actually do you know this but I'm
not sure all the listeners do I actually
teach on the side I'm a
ajan college professor at a few
different you know colleges just
part-time because I enjoy it and I was
like I'm just gonna teach his stuff
because I was already teaching it right
and like I could teach the concepts just
fine so I like started out and did all
that and then it's like honestly I look
back and it's like it's like
cringe-worthy like as to what the things
I like said and like did it's like oh my
god I really because I wasn't pract
I was talking like I knew everything and
I think a lot of people make this
mistake they talk like they they think
they know what caused it listen to a
podcast or a dozen podcasts but then
when you're actually practicing it it's
like we're the proof proof is in the
pudding you know like make it actually
happen and until you're doing that just
stop and yeah just stop so indeed so the
next one that we're gonna get to number
two is patience and consistency and when
we were first drafting up the list I
didn't put this on here so Ron do you
wanna you want to take this since you
you sort of champion so since I'm
spearheading it yeah yeah so basically
one of the things that that I'm trying
to be a little bit more active a
Facebook groups Doug and I were talking
about this a minute ago and and one of
the things that I keep seeing is people
are saying you know oh I'm getting five
people to my website a day and and at
what point come in can i monetize and
and you know they're thinking way too
far ahead so just in general when it
comes to making money online it really
is a marathon this is not I can't
reiterate this enough it's not something
that's gonna be good in a month three
months six months you might start seeing
a little bit of decent progress a year
you're gonna maybe see like you know in
most cases there's always outliers but
in most cases you might see like a
couple hundred bucks you know usually
like I think that's pretty pretty
average but I think the biggest thing is
that as an individual if you're getting
into this and you're starting this you
need to be incredibly patient incredibly
consistent and understand that there's a
lot of hard work ahead of you to make
this actually happen you know I think
that so many people just they want to
make that those quick those quick
dollars and they want to just like dive
in and get into it and for me it's like
that's
just not what this is like it's just
it's I always tell people expect to take
at least a year and dive into this for a
full year and really commit yourself for
a full year before you see anything good
and usually people see a little bit of
success before that but I try to you
know brace them mentally like hey you
got to do this for the long haul this
can't be something that you you know
you're gonna start stop start stop so
yeah I think that's a big thing and then
like and also I will say to like
patience and consistency one of the
biggest parts to that is that if you're
patient and consistent you're working at
it and you know let's say you have
limited time though let's say you have a
full-time job there's nothing wrong with
being patient consistent and using
someone else to write some of your
content you know for that whole year
that's fine the point is just commit to
having a budget for the website for the
whole year so and I could hop in and
just repeat what you just said but I'm
not going to many take a slightly
different angle and talk about the
consistency part where you know we
talked about or you mentioned sticking
with something for one year and I want
to emphasize to stick with a thing right
so if you spend one month like for 12
straight months or even 18 straight
months and you're like switching what
you're working on so you're going for
dropshipping
you're gonna do an Adsense site because
you think you know Ron's awesome and you
loved his interview from obviously yeah
and then and then you hear about some of
the success stories from my students and
you see they're really doing well with
affiliate marketing or maybe you heard a
podcast on dropshipping fill in the
blank right there's a like a million of
these different business opportunities
real estate rental properties blah blah
blah if you keep switching you're just
gonna keep making like dumb beginner
mistakes for each one of the things
there may be some transference for a few
areas but trust me if if I was going to
try to make a site like Ron does or Ron
make a site like I do we would run into
some issues right because we don't know
those mechanics even though they're very
closely related super closely related
there's just a little bit of a learning
curve for everything and if you're
brand-new and you keep switching
you're just gonna be frustrated you will
feel I mean it's natural to compare
yourself to other people and all these
case studies that we share but really if
you're switching around you're just
shooting yourself in the foot yeah yeah
completely 100% agree with you Doug I
actually when I first started that was a
mistake I made myself I had my first
website that I'm currently on but then I
tried all these different projects and
yeah it's it's a pretty miserable thing
to deal with like what I always tell
people is if you're gonna start
something it has to work think of it
that way not oh it might work it's it
has to work and I have to give it at
least a full year that's a good way to
kind of prepare yourself mentally in my
opinion so yep in quick example and then
we'll move on to the next one a previous
guest Chris Pearson the founder of DIY
themes instrumental and sort of the
premium WordPress theme space you know a
decade ago thirteen years ago something
like that he was talking about I think
this was after our interview even I
can't remember if we recorded it or what
but he was mentioning that like his
project seemed to be like two years
before they start getting some traction
and then I thought back to my
experiences right so whether it was like
the first sites that I launched or my
course or whatever like it's just an
it's all you could do to get a shippable
product whatever it is in you know a
year right we're talking significant
stuff right so now that another small
have a small project it takes a little
while to build it and then after that
you have to figure out how to market it
so whether it's SEO or whether it's
email marketing or getting the word out
or whatever or even the key word golden
ratio right no one cared for the first
couple their first several months maybe
the first couple years even but here in
the last little bit people are talking
about it right like if you go this is
interesting if you go check the search
volume for this made-up thing that I've
done right the key word golden ratio is
search for a couple hundred times a
month which is kind of cool because like
this we we made it up right I mean I
just made it up
so that's an awesome feeling
okay number three there are bad people
and charlatans selling garbage and
they're all over the place and it's hard
to tell when you're first getting
started
who is who so Ron did you run into any
charlatan types when you were start you
know so that's all thing like even today
I I don't see this very often and I
don't know if it's because I have
blinders on I see it in facebook group
so people will comment and like they'll
give advice and I'll look at what
they're and I literally think what the
hell is he talking what the hell are
they talking about like that's just not
good advice I see that at times I don't
know if it necessarily selling like
courses but I pretty much followed like
like Pat Flynn and then I basically only
focused on people who had big podcasts
after that so I didn't find a bunch of
that but yeah I'd like to hear more
about you know what you know cuz i I
just I don't know like I said I've had
the blinders on and I kind of went heads
down after I started learning and just
worked so so I generally followed the
same like Ralphie you mentioned where
Pat would have someone on the podcast
and then I would listen to their podcast
and a bunch of little you know
jumping-off points Pat was the hub so
that's why we have like such a similar
background and probably what we're
talking right now so the some of the
people that I ran into were like very it
was very recently like on YouTube so on
YouTube it's it's very tempting to have
like a viral kind of video where you
have a great headline
you're showing like the high level just
easy like the most basic ideas claiming
that it's you know making a ton of money
and it's super easy and actually this
happened where I interviewed someone on
my channel cuz we had like some overlap
on a couple topics and then I think he
he was like basically well
it's not a family-friendly show but I
will save what I was about to say and
just say he wasn't a nice guy all right
so put it that way and then I think he
like went and looked at one of my videos
on Amazon affiliate marketing recreated
like the high love mean he created his
own video but basically he had a way to
spam his video in some effective way
where it got like a ton of views he
ranked over me like in the youtube
search and that sort of thing of course
he had like no idea of the topic he was
just like a lot of people are searching
for that I'm gonna hop on copy the ideas
from one of Doug's videos and then you
know get a bunch of views on it which he
did and he was selling you know a bunch
of you know terrible courses the other
thing is like one way to tell right is
if you have land on someone's site and
it's just a landing page yeah that's
usually a bad sign they're like sign up
and you could figure out or I'll teach
you how I'm doing all this affiliate
marketing I'm making eight hundred
dollars a day and they're on the beach
or something like that like usually like
if it's just a squeeze page which is a
landing page where you can't really do
anything there's no other content
probably not a good sign so that that's
one area another area of seen a lot of
is it's partially on YouTube but another
area is like the automated like website
builders so it would be like Amazon
affiliate builder like a store right
it'll build a store for you like oh like
automatically you just put in the
categories and it builds this whole
store of course there's I mean you won't
get any traffic you have this store and
in some cases you know the software is
pretty cheap maybe it's 100 bucks or
something and then in other cases you
may have to like pay a small amount for
the software but then ongoing hosting
where they're you know maybe like
hosting it for you but they're charging
you a lot so maybe they're charging you
25 bucks a month or 50 bucks a month or
some
like that so it's just enough for for
them to make a lot of money at volume
and you're getting some value because
they're hosting your site but it's way
overpriced and generally your site's
never going to work out there's no like
repeat customers but they rope you in
and they know like if they can keep you
on for say four to eight months I'm just
making that up they're like well like I
made all the money I need from that one
person and then the other way they rope
you in is generally it's the pyramid
scheme where they will then recruit you
as one of their customers to recruit
more people as an affiliate and so like
you're gonna make some money as an
affiliate selling the same garbage that
you just bought which is terrible right
so that's where the Charlatans garbage
and all that stuff comes into play yeah
and you know what uh and now that you're
talking about it it's really funny but
you say this so my wife is currently in
Brazil getting her green card and thing
figuring all that out but she just
recently found a youtube video that was
like how this girl made thirty thousand
dollars in a day selling makeup
something with makeup I don't even
reported like a Beauty Blender or
whatever and then she's she came to me
and she's like right we gotta do this
and she's already creating a Shopify
store and all this stuff I mean to her
credit she has the ability to use her
social media to possibly push some
customers and so I was like if you want
to try it you want to try it go ahead
but I remember she was telling me she
was laughing cuz she's like this guy
creates videos and and he's got this one
that talks about like how to make five
thousand dollars in an hour with no work
and I was like laughing I'm like Tom
that's her name Tilly that I was like
that's laughable how ridiculous that is
I was like if it sounds too easy it is
so I'm it's not costing a lot of money
or anything I'm backing up and I'm gonna
let her try something maybe it'll work
with her social media but like that is a
good example I just did someone at the
door don't even worry about that that's
a package but that's a good example for
sure of what you're talking about I
didn't even think about till you were
just talking I clicked in my head so
yeah and I think maybe it shifts like
where the people are right so when we
were starting up there were like these
squeeze pages and
like warrior special offers like on the
warrior forum did you ever see the
warrior forum back in the day I did I
did see the warrior forum yeah yeah I I
didn't spend much time there but yeah
yeah same here I mean when you read it I
was like this is really weird and this
comes into like another area where like
these people are influencers and then
they will just push each other's
products with like fake testimonials so
like there's maybe 10 or 15 people who
are making a lot of money on these
products providing testimonials for
other people and then the products
really suck now some people out there
may be thinking well Doug you push some
affiliate products and other people push
your product well we have like actual
testimonials from actual people and
there's just like too much information
out there that's positive and I only
work with people that I know so I
definitely approached often to you know
push someone's course or product or
whatever and actually this happened
recently someone was trying to pitch
something to me and it was like in
general the idea is okay but I was like
I don't know who you are you haven't
even given me your last name here like
now I don't know what these service is
gonna be like how are you gonna support
the customers or students or whatever
and they they then ignored my email so I
was like well I think ya just proved my
point
yeah yeah and I'm the same way I'll
recommend certain products but like when
you and Pat Flynn talks about this -
when you recommend a product you're not
just recommending the product it's not
that easy you're actually kind of
putting your reputation on the line so
the minute that you reprimand a product
or a course or whatever and it's it's
garbage people see that and then they're
mad at you so like that's you know I'm
the same way as you like I'll recommend
things sure but I either use them myself
or I like really actually taking the
time to go through it and make sure it's
good stuff because I don't want to
recommend crap I don't want people to
think I'm a jerk so yep it totally does
I mean you know you're affiliated with
whatever company is paying you so I mean
it counts okay so everybody watch out
for the charlatans out there and it's
sometimes hard to tell but I mean
generally
I think if someone is not put well
here's a good example if someone's not
putting out a lot of free content where
you kind of get to know them I mean
that's sort of my like barometer at this
point cuz when you look when I'm when I
look at the people who I am you know
trying to maybe emulate or at least I
looked up look up to on some level
they're putting out a lot of free
content a lot of value so even the
people who are not customers are getting
a lot of value from them so that's what
I try to do personally all right moving
on number four is passive income is not
real so Ron what do you think about this
we didn't discuss these last couple here
all passive income it is not well it can
be real and it can not be real and I'm
sure we'll get into it but basically the
idea of like yeah I think I think and
it's at its full basis the idea of like
passive income where you literally do
nothing and collect money is not real
and I say that because even if you have
rental properties people are like well
if you have a rental property it's
completely passive income not true
because you have to either manage the
property yourself or you have to have a
property manager that you manage so
there's always some sort of work that
goes into everything it's never like
passive income you know it's just gonna
come out of nowhere and then you never
have to do anything to earn it I think
that there's a point to where after
you've established in things you can
have real passive income but there is
something that you know takes you to get
to that point for sure very good yeah I
don't have much more to add to that
stealing your Thunder yeah and I think I
mean a lot of people have said similar
things again I'm not just gonna repeat
what you said but the idea is like at
some point you'll be able to relax a
little bit and like it is more of a
maintenance situation versus a you know
constantly building now you kind of run
into an issue I think Ryan and I and we
know other people you know like
ourselves who get obsessed and we like
to build things and like to work on
so it's a little bit of a vicious cycle
where you keep looking for new stuff and
different projects and that's fine right
like we need to be stimulated and do
interesting things and work on stuff
that is new so that we can learn but at
the same time it's like sometimes we
don't know when to chill out especially
I mean you'll probably run in on a lot
of caffeine over the last couple weeks
dealing with this stuff so you're like
go-go-go and then once you you know once
you've finished and it's time to relax
for a second like you find something
else to stress about basically right
always I mean yeah like I always do I
think there were really some more in
that way like I get I get bored
it's just the like I could I could
because I have a team in place and
everything I could coast and seriously
not work for weeks on end if I wanted to
and I could like and just answer emails
I guess that would be the work and make
you know managing my people I could do
that but I don't want to do that I like
I like the idea of just growing and and
one thing I'll say is that like with
this passive income you know maintenance
is required but there are times you know
and I know you you experience with your
moving and we are my wife and our
renovating a house right now so like
there are times when you can like I've
taken days off you know like completely
like I didn't even check my email until
9 o'clock at night and business kept
going so and that is that is the great
part which leads us to number five wait
passive income is kind of real so as as
you're mentioning perfect segue right by
the way as a guest host that was
wonderful
basically yeah I move that took about
about a month mostly off now I worked a
ton for about you know two three weeks
leading up to it just to plan everything
out and make sure I was in good shape to
take that time off but it was fine and I
I mean there are periods of time like
maybe if you're on vacation for example
I mean we don't like to do this but I'm
sure you've done it before Ron like
you're on vacation you have your laptop
and you're like I'm gonna I'm gonna work
half a day like it's rainy outside or
whatever and you could take some time
off to from your vacation to actually do
a little work but in those cases like
when you're moving or there's renovation
and it's like a disaster and you you
don't have an office or whatever like
you literally can just not do anything
and it's okay it takes someone it takes
a while to get to that point and I think
I think you still have to have like like
I said I did a ton of work for the weeks
leading up to my time off and that was
that was how I did and I'm gonna I'm
gonna do it again it turns out I like
doing a ton of work and like really
hammering myself and like being super
productive and then like completely
checking out where I mean I'm not even
I'm gonna have like a small laptop with
me so it'll be uncomfortable I won't be
able to do anything like you know super
intense and I think it'll be great so
anything else to add about the you know
passive income is kind of real I think I
think like for me I will say when I
first started and I always heard about
like you know you hear about Tim Ferriss
4-hour workweek like that's beat us with
my main website that's not be us I could
probably do it in two hours honestly I
really don't do much because it's all
outsourced but I remember in the
beginning I mean when I first started I
was working 10 12 14 hour days
consistently every single day Monday
through Sunday I never experienced
burnout necessarily because for me this
is and I think Doug you're probably the
saying this is it's hard to say but it's
like kind of a hobby so like it's not
it's a thing is that wouldn't work for
other people it was work it was
something that was like well I have to
do is now it's like a hobby to where I'm
actually taking on projects that I'm
interested in and I can control my
direction of what I'm doing so that's a
huge huge thing but yeah when I started
it was like you know 10 12 14 hour days
and I was fine with it my wife wasn't at
girlfriend at the time but yeah like now
you know I won't say it's completely
passive but now you know maybe a four or
five hour a day is fine you know that
that's about what
and there's some days that I put in
longer like lately with this malware
stuff I've been putting in some long
hours but like yeah usually like that's
that's fine but that's the thing people
hear that and then in the beginning they
kind of slow down it's like no no in the
beginning that's when you really really
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