70 Posts vs 500 Posts, $2,500/Month with Duke #Best Education Page #Online Earning

this is an update with Dook Dook shared

his success story a few months ago and

if you haven't watched the first

interview you should definitely check it

out we'll put a link in the description

for you but recently Duke hit three

thousand dollars in one month and that

was back in December so that was part of

the retail season he settled out at

about twenty five hundred bucks per

month at this point in time which is

like early in 2019 this interview is

awesome because Duke shares tons of

details so an interesting thing is Duke

has two sites now one has about 500

posts and the other one only has about

70 he lets us know the you know the

surprise is that the site with fewer

posts is actually more profitable and

he's having a little trouble with the

site that has all that content so we

kind of dig into that additionally Duke

tells us about his Pinterest strategy

and he put a lot of time into this and

I've been sort of negative on Pinterest

and spending time there in general but

Duke has figured out a system he's been

able to get traffic pretty quickly using

Pinterest

the other cool thing that Duke lets us

know about is link building or the lack

of link building and I think a lot of

the you know the early success is around

not necessarily the keyword golden ratio

but keywords that are similar to kg are

compliant terms so let's get to the

interview now and I want to thank Duke

again he's been you know big supporter

of the channel overall and it's great to

speak with him and have him in the

community if you have any questions for

Duke or for myself please leave a

comment and let us know and if you want

to get another update from Duke in the

future let us know also I may be able to

convince him to chat with me again so

let's get to the interview now what's up

Duke how are you doing today well it's

another day in paradise even though it's

raining it's still nice and finally got

done with the move that we started back

in November and so we're starting to get

on schedule again and get our routine

going fantastic it's well I really

appreciate you hopping back on for an

update so for people that aren't

where Duke had a success story to share

about that's something like six months

ago I'll put a link if you haven't seen

it so you can check it out so this is

sort of a checkpoint and you're a

fixture and the livestreams that I do so

if you're if you're not there one day

people ask about it and people want to

hear the update so yeah that kind of

made me feel good that people were

asking is like gee I must have made an

impression yeah you definitely did I

mean you're one of the it's one of the

most popular interviews we have on the

channel and yeah I mean I guess you're

just a likable guy back then you were

making about $1,000 a month from Amazon

affiliate revenue and it's been about

six seven months so kind of update us

what's been going on well christmas

season was good but not as good as I had

hoped

broke over 3000 during Christmas the

smaller site is doing really well and

the return is really good the larger

site did not do as much as I had hoped

so it's kind of I don't call it

struggling it's profitable but it's not

nearly the return compared to the

smaller site gotcha and so you have two

sites one of them is a little younger

than the other and one of them it's a

little old yeah can you tell us just

like sort of the breakdown like the

content that you have on each one and if

you obviously we're not gonna tell

mention the sites here but like if you

could give us an idea of like the

approach and difference in each one the

smaller site which is the older site by

six months it is a niche site or niche a

topic site it is geared towards

businesses that use different types of

products instead of going to directly to

consumers I instead went to a business

that has a lot of questions and a lot of

needs of how to do this and how to do

that and so it is probably 40%

informational 60% money pages okay the

larger site is directly to consumers and

it's a general niche

category basically a review site i

targeted 22 different product lines not

brands but types of products and then

did oh between 15 and 30 posts for each

product it is probably 20% informational

and 80 percent many pages or targeting

many keywords gotcha okay and over there

it sounds like you if I do my math right

you have a few hundred articles on the

larger site 540 I think okay did you

write all that no there is a lot of

lessons I learned with this larger site

that is serving me well now but was

quite the struggle at the time I didn't

write I might have wrote ten of them

cool okay all right what I want to do is

dig in on that larger site and when did

you start that one last December okay so

last December so that is like 2017

December 20 like yes okay yes we're in

2019 right yeah I get this question all

the time right so it's like oh I found

several different product line keywords

can I create a general site and my

answer is well I wouldn't do that and I

never have but people do that and I have

seen some that make money and they're

successful but usually the cautionary

tale that I give is like well that means

you're competing against like the wire

cutter or other very large sites and

typically you're spread too thin there's

a lot of content that you have to cover

and you'll never finish right it's like

a never-ending battle to catch up it's

always a compromise so again I've never

done it but from my observations that's

what I see so what do you think what did

you learn well I had heard the same view

and others say it wouldn't be

recommended but I'm kind of a I have a

little bit of a contrarian personality

in me so when somebody says you

shouldn't does sometimes I do and and I

also wanted to test my skill to see if I

could would I recommend it no for two

main reasons

a the competition is lot tougher and B

to get Google to see you as relevant for

the topic that you are trying to rank

for is much tougher I've made it

profitable so it's not like I lost money

or didn't it didn't work but it was five

to ten times the work in order to get

that get it profitable yep

that's a good way to put it in most

people as you know they would never

follow through as far as you did with

the you're a stubborn man I could tell

like you published the 500 articles you

invested you know probably thousands

thousands of dollars into it just on

content without the guarantee right like

we're all taking a risk investing our

time and energy and money into it it's

great that you got it profitable but at

the same time like like you're saying it

was just more work than it needed to be

potentially yeah well my smaller site up

until just recently only had about 70

articles on it yet it made more money

than my larger site so to emphasize

again so it's like 70 articles versus

five hundred and something yes it it was

more profitable that tells you exactly

what you need to know I haven't decided

yet whether I'm gonna do something with

the larger site I don't know if I'm

going to sell it I might sell it it's

profitable making about $1,000 a month

so I could make a little bit of change

off of it or if I'm going to break it

down into about three different niche

sites I haven't decided yet now there I

can't remember the name of the site but

there was a large site like wire cutter

size and they they were acquired and the

new owners broken up to like six new

sites what was the name of it about.com

I think they had they switched it to oh

yeah there's about six different sites

now I can't think of your names up my

head I think it's like a life something

life wires one of them life wire okay

yeah so so the point is they like

about.com I've obviously had like

crazy amount of content all over the

place and they were like hey like let's

try this but maybe it was a lot more

strategic I'm summarizing I I read the

head right but I didn't read the whole

article right so basically they split it

up in like profit traffic like you could

see it if you just do some investigating

you can see the growth that they had so

that's an interesting idea and you said

this making about a thousand dollars a

month yeah

okay what's the other site making it

makes between a thousand and fifteen now

okay so you're about 2,000 2,500

consistently nice yeah and you started

the older site at the end of 2017 so

within a little like in about 18 months

Ash 18 months you hit about $2,000 a

month

yeah nice very very cool so with the

amount of content that you published on

the larger site from a Content

standpoint what did you learn about you

know hiring writers working with writers

just running that machine of content

well I started off by trying the up work

method and hired writers and honestly I

could not find ones that did a good

enough job and I kept on get they would

say they were native English speakers

send me something that looked good and

then when I got the real product it was

not nearly as good and it was a native

English speakers mm-hm

so I don't know if they were firming it

out to somebody else or what but anyways

so eventually I got frustrated with up

work and I went to a Content broker that

company and they have done an excellent

job for me and so for about 20 well I

paid twenty dollars a thousand four

thousand words and they produce great

content okay as good or better than I

could okay cool we won't mention it

right here but we'll discuss after and

then include a link if appropriate so

right yeah later on I saw that John

Dykstra also uses them so okay cool

friend of the show good guy John so

yeah very good so you started using the

content broker a good deal high quality

so yep and that's I still do all my own

formatting and publishing but that's

kind of I don't know if that's me not

wanting to delegate or if that's because

I really like to do it but that's where

I put in my SEO stuff to make it search

engine friendly so sure I don't ask the

writer to be an SEO in fact I give them

know with SEO instructions I just asked

him right then I put in the SEO perfect

okay cool and I think it's I mean it's

good like at some point you have to like

do the QA the Quality Assurance at some

point so that is a it's a fine time to

do it right and then you could put in

the portion right the SEO expertise that

you don't want outsourced that's that's

your special specialty right so yeah

well on to SEO when you get the content

actually just take us through the

process what format do you get it in how

do you upload it like what are you doing

for the SEO portion I get it in a Word

docs format and I just I'll put it in

the title a lot of times a lot of times

I've just given them the keyword as the

title so they have the keyword and then

I'll rewrite the title so I'll put in

the title you know not make sure that

the keywords in the title and in the URL

and the meta title no matter whatever h1

all that stuff which WordPress normally

does for yet automatically my sites are

running and we've you've mentioned this

theme before but they're running on the

rehab theme and so and it uses WordPress

bakery it used to be called visual

composer or whatever so instead of using

the new Guttenberg I just switched it

over to visual composer and I'll just

paste the article into the the content

area then I'll add an h2 that has the

keyword in it I will make sure that the

keyword is in the content once there

will be variations of the keywords in

h3s I'll put in an original image fact I

use a Pinterest optimized him

so it's a vertical image instead of

horizontal and I'll put some time it all

depends if I'm getting lazy or not but

I'll put the keyword in the alt tag of

the image and usually it's best red

widgets image right and that's that's my

home day okay good yeah

all right in that like when you do out

the first mention of the product link at

Amazon then under features I have a

content box that gift from content egg

that shows features price and images oh

you know you can tab through them and

see everything and then I'll go through

and I'll list it once more in a little

call-to-action box at the bottom of the

article okay good so to summarize some

of the like technical stuff so you're

using the rhihub theme yes okay which

i've talked about a lot but partially

because you and I discussed it before I

heard it from a couple students in

five-figure a niche site and then I

checked it out and it's a great theme

has the visual or the WP bakery so you

can do so yeah you know some custom

design if you want to and then you

mentioned content egg so what is that

for the people that don't know that is

also a plug-in there's a free version

and a paid version it works in

conjunction with the rehab theme they've

they've collaborated together what that

does is it pulls all the Amazon API

information for you you can do it right

from the backend you can put in your

product or a sin number it'll pull it

right up you can put in a shortcode and

it gives you a nice little

call-to-action box or information box of

some kind that type of thing the thing I

like about it the most

let's back into the plug-in itself is it

has a tab for all the products that you

are covering in your website and it'll

tell you which products are out of stock

or discontinued and you can just go

there and replace them and keep it all

up to date and it's a thousand times

faster than trying to

do that manually beautiful yeah I can't

I mean that is an auditing situation if

you want to solve that on your own

without a tool yeah so yeah was the paid

version of content AG like what is that

what you get like the extra checking

well I guess with the paid version you

get the extra checking you also get eBay

Walmart you have I mean almost every

affiliate program out there it has

connection to their eight api's I use

eBay because of my reviews I give a

price comparison so they can either go

to Amazon or they can go to eBay whoever

has the cheapest priced nice so what's

the payout typically on the eBay side

how's that work eBay is different they

pay you a percentage of their profit

instead of a percentage of the total

sale they pay you a percentage of the

profit that they make it is came out to

be very comparable to Amazon I'm usually

between five and six percent of the sale

price oh gosh interesting okay is there

anything else on the content side or on

page SEO that's worth mentioning one of

the things I'm doing and especially

working on the small site is there's

your dog I can't remember his name

Georgie is Georgie just sensing

something in the front someone close

that door anyways one of the things that

WordPress bakery allows you to do

especially as it's fitted with the rehab

theme is you can actually do your own

related content at the bottom of the

post so you just pull it up you can do

manual then it'll search for you know

you can put in like say well put in red

widgets and every article on red widget

it'll pull it up and you can start

adding them so you have control of your

related content you can do it once it's

done it's not done by a plug-in and it's

done relevantly yeah so that's very

important my small site I get well I get

1.8 actions per visitor you

there's pages or it's click-throughs to

Amazon or Ebay or it is some type of

they have completed a task of some time

on my website and how do you track that

how do you track actions per user well I

was using Google Analytics up until this

month you can set up an event in Google

Analytics and you can set it up to track

all outbound links or you can set it up

to track links to a certain domain which

then you put it in amazon.com you can

set it up to well it already tracks

pageviews being set it up to track

downloads all kinds of things so you use

events and then I also use an adjusted

bounce rate event which is a timer and

it so it'll ping the browser that the

person's used in every 15 seconds so you

get a much more accurate time on site

and if they've engaged in your content

at least 15 seconds I feel they've

engaged with your content and didn't

just come there go ooh this is ugly and

bounce back a lot of people ask about

how to track this stuff was it pretty

easy for you to set up I used Google tag

manager which there is a couple good

tutorials on YouTube and also if you're

a reader you know search setting up

Google tag manager annulled the analyst

code is harder so I use Google tag

manager recently I just switched I was

dealt with some negative SEO over the

last year some people just got jealous

or wanted to make it fail or whatever

after I did a couple interviews and I

see him come and find me I mean I'm too

transparent but that's okay I dealt with

negative SEO and I was dealing with a

negative SEO attack I believe where they

were sending bounce BOTS to my site to

bounce in and bounce out to give me bad

user metrics with Google and that was

being tracked the only thing that could

have been tracking because they were

coming in actually using

obvious they were BOTS they were using

Microsoft Internet Explorer 9 and

Windows NT or Windows Vista or Windows 7

as like who uses Windows Vista anymore

yeah come on

so they were obviously on a old machine

that they were just you know they did a

program well I got concerned I would see

that my Google referral traffic would

drop when these guys would come and do

their little thing so I eventually

switched and I switched out of analytics

and switched server side of peewit kids

called matome oh but they provide the

server and so and it has all the same

analytics and it's nine bucks a month so

no biggie and so by doing that does that

like well remove the effectiveness of

the balance SEO I'm not sure I am

assuming that Google you they have said

they don't but I never believed anything

Google says they don't do they say they

don't use analytics but I noticed that

it was affecting my traffic my guess is

they may use analytics as a confirming

signal maybe not a ranking signal but a

confirming signal which would be okay we

think we should rank it here what does

analytics show sure interest that's

that's my guess and that's just a guess

and I could be wearing a tinfoil hat you

know right there's so many factors in

like you know the correlation and who

knows so what was the name of the

analytics oh it's P wig you know P weeks

been around forever but you used to have

to put it on your own server in order to

get it to run it is called matome oh ma

tom1100 driven as I am I've never gotten

into tracking the clicks and the

activity and stuff on the site as much

but a few months ago you know I try and

keep up with folks even if I don't do

like a proper update but you were

telling me about some of the Pinterest

experiments that you were doing and

cuz you have things set up like like you

mentioned with a sag manager you were

able to get some decent data from the

Pinterest stuff that you were working on

so tell me about what you did and some

of the findings that you have so far

what I did I already had the articles so

people who are doing this if they're

just starting out they probably won't

see the increase as quickly as I had it

I redid all my featured images on the

website to a 600 by 900 pixel featured

image now that's not when they come to

my site they don't get blasted with this

huge featured image before they can see

anything I in fact I don't even have a

featured image at the top it's just the

website header and then the title but

then in the content I have a narrowed

down or a smaller version of that

featured image in the content near the

top I did that for all the articles I

had an old Pinterest account that I

fired back up and I did keyword rich

description for the account then I did

22 boards for each product line and

those were keyword rich both in the

title and the description and then each

pin basically I used my Google meta

description you know where you put in

the hundred fifty characters or whatever

for Google I used that as my pin

description and then the relevant

hashtags with it and so I started out I

was getting just a trickle of traffic

without doing anything between one and

five visitors per week and I grew that

in three months to a hundred visitors

per day and that happened at the time

when Google started all their updates in

August you know medic and whatever

sometimes I would get dings sometimes I

wouldn't get ding but it irritates me

when Google does updates and I haven't

been doing anything wrong and I get

dinged and so I decided I was gonna have

a second source of traffic

and so that's what I did now it is not

the same as Facebook or Twitter or those

social media it is actually a visual

search engine people go to Pinterest to

find out how to do things and to learn

about what they need for projects they

have and everything else and it's not

just women believe it or not I have 45%

men and 55% women that look at my

profile which is I got a higher

percentage of men than women compared to

the site but there's enough men on there

to make it worth your while

and it's not all recipes and you know

Etsy crafts some of my pins are getting

repinned like crazy because they're

beautiful images of the product so I did

that and then I used there's a free

version of it and then a paid version of

it but a program called tailwind net is

a scheduler for Pinterest and Instagram

but I use it for Pinterest it makes my

work load about an hour per month in

pinning and repenting content and doing

the strategies and basically the

strategy is have your own boards have

boards that are related say for instance

you're into lawn care and you're pushing

lawn mowers well then you can have an

outdoor barbecue board because people

barbecue on their lawns or barbecue in

their yards and you attract similar type

of customers to what your products would

be geared towards nice so think of the

audience think of the market not just

yes the blood product exactly think of

your market who is who would buy your

product then think of what else would

they be interested in that it doesn't

have to be you then you can bring in

pins from other people who are fitting

that niche they in turn will do the same

for you and pretty soon you've developed

a network and you don't have to talk to

anybody which is the goal that's our

goal yeah okay cool it's funny because

you know we were chatting before hand

and

doing some updates with other people

everyone is like so interested in

Pinterest there's a student of mine

she's in town so I invited her over

you'll hear it on the podcast seen on

the YouTube channel as well but we were

sitting right here earlier and she was

telling me about Pinterest she was

telling me about tailwind and like the

exactly what you're saying she spends a

little time each month she batches it

she sets up her whole month and then

like it's set yeah I spend about an hour

a month you said you went from like

basically you know a few visitors a day

from Pinterest to about a hundred within

three months so has it leveled off or

does it grow it actually has declined a

little bit since Christmas is over

but everybody I've talked to that does

Pinterest says that's normal but it is

steadily growing I mean it dropped down

to like 70 but it's still 70 to 90 and

it's it's still growing

okay so cool now did you notice a

correlation between the posts that were

being pinned or the most activity with

her ranking so was there a correlation

between those the correlation I've seen

is the more engagement your pin gets the

higher it will rank in the Pinterest

search traffic

it really has very little to do it has

to do with the relevancy of your

description and title but it has little

to do with what you've done on your

website and how great your website is is

more about the engagement of that pin so

in all honesty you could have a really

crappy website and make this great pin

and you'll drive traffic from that point

of view like it's all about that image

right yes

so how did you create the images did you

do it yourself that you outsource it

hi outsourced the first batch again

didn't like too much what I got so then

I went and found life where's cousin it

was in the same niche it's I don't

remember the name of it but it's one of

the other about.com I found their

Pinterest board and looked at their pins

and they are all it's obviously it's

Madison Avenue

you know they they've paid somebody to

do their pins so then I went and took

their format not their images but their

format how their styling and stuff and I

went and duplicated it in Adobe

Illustrator and use that different

colors you know different fonts but

basically the same format okay cool and

that's interesting so you found

something that was working and then you

emulated it without copying it which I'm

sure I mean yes there's hardly anything

original I'm sure they got that yeah I'm

somewhere else right so yeah and then

I've done some experimentation since and

I've actually found a really good review

template to use so I'm not now using

that okay like review template like for

review for review posts instead of a

best list for a review post basically a

big huge beautiful image of the product

underneath it with a gray gradient I

have just the product name like the the

Acme red balm you know and then below

that I have in my branding colors I have

the name of my website oh and then I

have a small under the title I have a

small italic product review in

comparison in smaller font and italic so

they know it's a product review in

comparison price comparison and that's

working great okay very cool and just to

rewind so you said you had a decent

amount of content when you first started

on Pinterest so how many posts did you

have I was up to the 540 mark okay so

did you more I start how did you decide

what to create pins for I did it for

everything everything so just a hundred

percent and then did you put everything

into rotation and I understand tailwind

has some intelligence so you can really

good stuff right yes I pinned directly

to my boards first so I do about 10 a

day 10 to 20 a day I might do 10 in the

morning

to the night until I got all my pins on

there then I started rotating him

through tailwind and pinning him to

relevant boards and that kind of stuff

okay but I pin directly first I can use

tail went to start the pin use it to pin

from Pinterest okay in it at this point

we're getting to area which I don't even

know what you're talking about but I

understand so you create your guys over

so you create your yeah I could care

less about Pinterest but I think I'm

gonna get into it since I've heard about

it so much I'm like you know what

there's probably an affiliate program

for tailwind right so let's go check it

out you create your own board you

created twenty two of them you populated

each of those boards with all of your

530 posts and then after that you

started pinning other stuff into your

boards also not into my own personal

boards that my products I created

relevant boards pinned other products

plus my products into those boards okay

other people's pins bless mine gotcha so

that the twenty will struggle through

this together

so the twenty two board you filled with

your own stuff and then you created

other boards yes in which you pinned

other people's stuff as well as yours

yeah for instance okay if you had these

fruits let's use fruits like pears and

apples and bananas okay so let's say you

have pears apples and bananas boards

then you could have a tree horticulture

board you could pin your articles from

pears apples and bananas I don't know if

bananas code yeah bananas come from

trees and also you know maples and that

other people are doing plus tree care

and pesticide or pruning or whatever you

do into that board you could then have

say a fruit recipes board where you know

make fruit salads how to make apple pie

and different things and you can do your

apple and your fruit into that one as

well honestly if you're thinking about

your

target audience and what they're gonna

use stuff for and what they're gonna do

around this stuff you can have an

endless amount of boards okay do you

create keep creating new boards or are

you kind of you're happy with where it's

at right now I'm happy where it's at

right now when I started doing tailwind

more I found I had I was lacking in some

categories and I can just tell you these

categories because they have nothing to

do with they have to do with my audience

but not with my site you know there's a

lot of clothing web sites they use

Pinterest so I did a clothing deals

I'm never going to review a piece of

clothing but I'll do clothing deals

I have electronics that's a rod and I

have some my stuff in that and a lot of

other people's stuff I have jewelry and

home crafts and food tips these are all

things that would be around some

products so like when you start pinning

other people's stuff do they see that

you pinned it and then they'll check out

your stuff potentially at times and

times they'll follow you and the good

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