hey what's going on it's Doug here today
is another success story interview and
it's an update so we talked to Marty
McLeod who when we spoke to him a few
months ago he was making about $500 a
month but he's grown his income up to
about $1,000 a month
Marty shares some great nuggets of
wisdom so be sure to check out the first
interview if you haven't watched it and
if you have let's get to this interview
I want to welcome back Marty Marty you
were on the show a few months ago
actually right I talked to you back in
like July of 2018 and I want to get an
update so thanks for taking time out of
your day my pleasure now for the people
that don't know you can you just
introduce yourself as far as like your
background where you're from right so I
do have a full-time job by day I'm an
engineer
the usual 9:00 to 5:00 I or I live here
in Georgia not too far from Atlanta so
this is my part-time thing my website I
have two sides and I was a member of
your course started my main site last
last year actually and by the time that
I spoke with you in them in that episode
of your YouTube channel I and I hit my
first real goal at that time so it's
been a long journey and this is where I
am today so living in love it so in back
in July you're making I think you just
hit the milestone of $500 exactly and
where are you out right now in this is
about six seven months later it's early
2019 when we're recording this so I've
had some dips and Peaks but I'm at about
roughly eight thousand a month I know
you know traffic fluctuates sometimes
you know as some people know are aware
of but so they go right now is just hit
the next go which is 1500 per month nice
really work it's still working hard and
congratulations by the way
like once you hit the like the early
milestone you are probably thinking oh I
can't believe I did it now it's nice
it's so really it's like it's still
coming in and like the course was an
expensive investment and you obviously
live in a crazy man of time but like now
you probably find that it's fairly I
mean you want to grow but it's fairly
passive at that thousand years right
right there's there's always
little things bits and pieces here that
need be fixed and most of it is pretty
yeah it's very pensive a lot of the
stuff is just me improving and then
going up and cleaning up the site you
know say I had a issue with images as
perfect example I did things the wrong
way in the beginning I said I can do
that much better there's no reason for
it to look like that and that takes a
lot of work to but it's what words of
course little things like that you know
keep learning reading watching videos
listening to podcasts and you've got a
new podcast coming out I'm sure I'll
learn more from things like that now
let's sort of step back and talk about
how you chose the category the niche and
the projects that you're gonna cover for
my main site when I first started the
program we course members of your course
are able to talk with you and we go
through the evaluation process for Anish
mine is actually pretty competitive so
it's not really when it's one of the
more difficult ones which I didn't
understand that had that perspective at
a time but because there's a lot of
there are a lot of buyers out there it's
related to I will just say it's a
heard of and it's basically building
this like doing the really good keyword
research in order to rank in the top 10
and that's what made it possible it
always comes back to the same basic
principles you know almost always okay
cool and you know from your perspective
you mentioned it's pretty competitive
but you didn't really know it's how you
got started like what insights do you
have for people because this is where
people get hung up right they know that
it's super important to make a selection
that is not going to be too competitive
but you also want in enough competitions
I know that it's a validated area too
even you can make money basically
so what tips do you have yeah well one
big thing I think really stands out
that's helped me so much is I know youth
I think it was the Moz bar you had
people using recommended there's also
you can use another extension for Chrome
called SEO quake and what I'll do is
I'll in my case for keywords but it
could be just checking in each same same
principle I use what the extension
installed I can see the stats for all
the competition that comes up in
search engine results page or service
and that gives you a lot of insight into
the big picture you look at the big
picture it are there are some weaker
competitors do I have a stand a chance
at ranking in this nation or is it all
really tough and probably not a good
idea
it gives you a lot of insight as well as
really funding out across the board and
generally speaking are the lot of buyers
for this product a lot of different
variations of this kind of miss nation
these products is there this is there
that this for moms is for babies for
example for this and not know that is if
there are a lot of those that's even
more potential keyword ideas as you go
further on down road as opposed to
something that's very limited in terms
of keywords that you might be able to
find because it makes a huge difference
right I mean the competition analysis is
really difficult because once you start
looking at an overall topic there are
hundreds thousands of different keywords
or products so it's really hard I get
emails often hey is X niche a good one
to go after the answer is well I don't
know but first it's like I have no idea
and then really it's like yes most of
the time there's enough wiggle room
where you can like find a spot to
provide valuable information to people
that are interested in that
like sliver that you're targeting yeah
so it's really hard to answer that
question and a lot of times it's like
yeah it looks a little competitive but
you know why don't you give I think I
remember some of those coaching calls
where you and I were talking and it was
like it's gonna be could be a little
tough hopefully I gave you good advice
like it could be a little tough but it's
hard to tell until you start publishing
stuff yeah yeah chances are right and
you probably found this Marty where it
was like maybe it took a little bit
longer than you thought it would but if
write can get past that period yes the
competition drops out right right yeah
yeah definitely that's a very good point
I have to think when you begin this you
don't always understand you think long
term because some things take can take a
long time to to rise up in rankings and
for the site start building it momentum
if you're thinking to short term as and
I want to see results much much faster
you're
farlap more likely to get discouraged
and some people potentially even give up
because of that which you've got to
understand that think you you're looking
long term gains not short term right but
it pays off it'll pay off right if you
can change your mindset like that
exactly and I was gonna say I was just I
got so excited so I didn't mean to
interrupt you
of course I was chatting with my wife
over the weekend and you know we're
often in a mindset of like how can I
make this whatever this is make this
happen as quickly as possible
and the decisions that you make if
you're looking say six months or even
eighteen months out the decisions you
might make are totally different than if
you're thinking hey what about two or
three or five years from now like then
the decisions you make are dramatically
different in me you can make some pretty
bad dumb decisions if you're looking to
short-term and yeah absolutely
yeah that's what we want to do we want
things faster and if you are a little
more patient then you know things could
work out fine so speaking of patience
how old's your site right now so my main
site is let's see so gosh this less than
two years let's just I guess is what one
three-quarter years or something like
that they're trying to trying to
remember it's like it's like a newborn
child or something it's like you know
forty seven months so okay so it's about
it's about two years old now when you
hit the six-month mark Google sandbox is
something people talk about so at six
months did you see more growth
what about it yes like yeah for that
side it took a little bit over three
months once it got out for it to come
out of sandbox
my second one was actually faster by a
little bit but yeah so he took about
roughly three months for need for the
sandbox period and then progressively
over the the following number of weeks
the original ten post branded she has to
and your in your in your your course
begin to steadily see it kind of slowly
rise up as opposed to now where my son
is a little bit more authority and in
some cases it seems to get treated
favorably
even potentially some things pop up
overnight of course that's you know
somewhat unusual but it just goes to
show you that yeah there's a there's a
slow progression and once you get to two
better days things normal to take a
couple of weeks but in some cases much
much faster okay cool and about how much
content do you have on that first site
yeah so I'm trying to remember exactly
it's roughly 60 now 55 to 60 I remember
because some keywords attract separately
but yeah somewhere like that let's just
say 58 58 ish okay something like that
yeah cool and are you like actively
publishing more content or are you okay
so what's how are you dealing with that
are you hiring writers what's the
situation so yeah that Lee
even I'll have a question about that as
soon as I finished my my description so
I do it myself because it's at this
point I once I got a better
understanding of what content should be
based on the things I've learned from a
variety of good reference references and
good examples of then Internet as well
then doing my own which takes a lot of
work you know it takes time so it's a
little bit slow for me and get it out
say the most usually to post a week on
the weeks I'm doing the content I'm
hoping to get writers to speed up the
process and you know that's that leads
me to my question I was mentioning that
you know I've not had good results at
all I get back a lot of on a good day
it's mediocre content from writers so I
don't know what you would advise person
to do you know Doug you know in that
case do I just keep looking or is there
a better route I don't know
so where have you tried to find a writer
so far I've started usual places
I'm currently at read another guy again
up work it's my work out that right off
the bat it doesn't seem super fantastic
I just tried a texture on it was I was
gonna give text broker a shot with a
sample so so some of the main places
including our burger what was the main
issue that you see or actually what are
all the issues that you see when you get
the content yeah
biggest thing is I there's a way to
fluff in it it's not real material
whereas when I personally write content
I try super hard to answer their search
query
their questions make sure to be very
specific to the best of my ability
I'll find the information and I put it
into words they can understand and then
I'll go into great detail explaining
things and what I get back a lot of
times it's just is very generic
it's not they're obviously not putting
in the time to look up the real answers
and put it into content and deliver
value we're not doing it I know exactly
what you're talking about because you
probably have some guidelines around
word count and then people are just
filling it with like the transitional
phrases you know out so you end up with
really like flowery Yuling I don't know
if flowers yeah we're a lot of filler
maybe yeah it's a yes a total like
mostly not mostly but there's like say
25% filler content to hit the word and
then if you strip that out you end up
with like a tight concise piece of
content that someone will read and you
know I've definitely found actually one
of the top things when I added a site
and someone has not written the content
themselves I like look I read them the
content and it's clear I'm like there's
no point there's like four sentences
with no real point like you could take
all of that out like would you keep
reading
if you leaned on that site and they're
like now I see what you mean it's really
easy to snag the content and then put it
on there so okay let's review what you
said so you've tried up work which is my
like place of choice you've experimented
with a couple contents or yes yes I stay
away from Fiverr because there's been a
firm the most parts been a huge garbage
I right or was that was terrible yep Tex
broker is generally the same as I write
or early okay I think they're maybe he's
I haven't used them in a few years but
generally it's like the same situation I
believe you probably can't get really
good stuff on Tex broker but you'll be
paying like the five-star or like top
rating yeah it was extremely expensive
at that point so right because the
marketplace is so good on up work as far
as the scope of people that you could
find
I would probably keep trying to hire
there I would potentially experiment
with different price points
see if you could attract different kinds
of writers and I like really would
emphasize and I when I've worked with
writers I would just tell them I want
you to aim for these word counts but if
it's shorter that's okay and I tell them
I don't want fluff I don't want like
these transitional phrases that are just
not meaningful like you get it out I'd
rather have a shorter piece of content
that was punch here and got to the prime
usually writers a good writer will
appreciate it they will do that and you
can give them feedback and if they don't
get it
because usually eventually you will find
a couple people that'll be able to
deliver and not have all the flowery
language there okay that's great I
appreciate that a lot
I'll put that to their good use and
advice and how much were you paying good
last lady was twenty five an hour didn't
go very far issues not I was willing to
pay more I know they're the berries on
their own of work I'm certainly willing
to pay I'm not trying to cheap out so I
started it 10 15 then I went 20 25
some people want to do her assignment
okay which I know I wouldn't got the
less guy I was currently trying was 85
he said he wanted for one you know I
said you know if it's good enough okay
I'm not sure to be honest yeah you know
if you can get it and you don't have to
edit it that'd be worth it I think yeah
especially when you look at you know the
the site's bringing in money you're
seeing things ranked like you're not at
a point where you're testing like hey
does this work you know that it's
probably gonna rank even if all of them
don't bring in revenue you know that you
know some percentage of them are gonna
work out so right yeah I keep testing
and basically probably like most
organizations HR is like really
difficult to deal with people are the
worst so it's like if you're trying to
hire people then you're gonna have like
issues so even if you find a great
writer like you know they may bounce at
some point mm-hmm yeah I kind of expect
some wrong and do you have any tips for
like hiring writers I know you haven't
successfully like
found the right one but what right what
what's your experience with it well you
know of course we we had the things that
we learned from you well from the course
I took that and just kind of modified it
a little bit so primarily I would say it
would be trying to get your writer to
use conversational tone because
Americans I one thing I notice is a lot
of content that's good out is not really
natural for Americans beep in the West
we don't talk or write like that
normally
contractions are good using smaller
words or more understandable because for
one thing my main site especially my
main site my audience the reader
audience demographics are so wide is
everything from young people to could be
a grandmother and you can't throw down a
bunch of super big words and in
technical jargon you need to make it go
high on written ability tell your reddit
you want to use small words for possible
if they have technical words or anagram
spell it out clarify what it is I try to
get them to use ht2 or at least section
off subsections subtitles use a lot of
those because in the content I'm making
I divided up clearly a small paragraphs
two to three sentences at the max
sometimes one sentence especially
because on mobile it's very different
when a little bitty screen those turn
into a long prayer goes if not yeah I
know exactly what you're talking about
with with the writers basically we're
taught to write in the third person
right yeah that's all right the third
person and it's boring right it's really
strange you need to write in the first
person it needs to be conversational I
have had some writers that let go all
the way to the other end where they're
like it's almost like they're writing an
email to like their friend or something
and I don't know at some point they lose
me when they're you know it almost reads
like like an Instagram update or
something so anyway yeah more casual is
good and it's hard I mean once you give
people the approval and they get the
tone and all that stuff then usually
they get it because I mean that's how
like people do you speak all right cool
now you said you did a lot of writing we
were chatting earlier you mentioned you
were getting into copywriting a little
bit so
tell me about that yep there's a lot of
material out there and there's if you go
again Internet basically it usually
moves out to people recommending these
type courses the thing is the best
copywriting courses are at least several
hundred dollars if not almost a thousand
or met or even more or they're almost
impossible to find that's what's crazy
but I had the idea over the Christmas
break I went on udemy.com which is great
for a real popular site for courses and
various training of all different kinds
and I only paid $12 and I got one of the
top-rated copywriting courses because I
wanted to improve what I thought I was
already a good idea and that's the
conversation on writing but I wanted to
improve influencing sales and clicks
because that's basically what we're
doing is we have a site is helping
people to buy it was some of the best
money I ever spent it was a relatively
short course but it confirmed a lot of
my things about what we were just
talking about about the style of writing
as well as a ways that I could improve
turning features into benefits asking so
why if I want to write something so what
why does it matter this person write it
in the way that I want to know them out
make them feel good or want this and
things like that there's some basic
principles in there and they helped a
lot yeah okay and if you had these kind
of questions but a man asked if you had
like one tip for someone on their
affiliate site to improve the
copywriting a little bit you know based
on your knowledge the course like what
what would you give them yes
so I would if I would what is a great
question because I've actually said this
to people so I would write in a way just
like we just described conversational
tone that paints the product tells them
what they need to know about the product
but in a good way that helps to make
them say yeah you know what I think this
would be good for me to buy and then
don't be afraid to be clear with your
call-to-action make sure that that is
there you lead up to it and by the time
they click theirs they stand a very good
chance of already having said you know
what I might I might pick up one of
these Brianna don't be afraid to make
your tell them what you want them to do
you know Oh click here into freedom or
check it out blah blah blah yeah that's
like you should never rely on the person
to understand which you are leading them
to you have to tell them directly
yes you know click here do this and then
bla bla bla you know I've actually seen
a couple people's sites because I've
talked to so many people and in couple
cases call-to-actions were they weren't
very good at all and I understand what
they weren't doing was because it wasn't
clear you know where to click on this
urgent a button you know there wasn't
leading up to that you know and there
was a clearly nice flow that leads up to
them taking that action yeah exactly in
another situation that I see all the
time is like people use images and those
will be affiliate links and maybe they
don't have them any yeah their proper
call-to-action but but say you're just
scrolling down the page or even if
you're if you're on a mobile device and
you're scrolling yeah you have no idea
that the in like why am I gonna click on
the image like no one's gonna click on
your image unless you put call-to-action
in the caption it's like clear image
please click on the image yes whatever
so that's that's very true because based
on what the heatmap data that I saw that
it wouldn't happen otherwise unless you
specifically they need to click on it
they weren't they weren't clicking own
images right so and for the people that
don't know what a heat map is can you
describe that oh yeah so I need to make
make sure I get the technical terms
clear so a heat mount is a basically it
can be plugging in it can be a service
whatever it records and identifies where
people are clicking on your on the post
in terms of the most activity and
release activity which is it's also
sometimes they use the same word for a
scroll map where you can see where
people went to in opposed and spent the
most time reading that's awful also very
helpful sometimes you learn a lot from
other hoes okay and so with that
information and then your copywriting
like what things have you learned about
images or calls to action or the heat
map in general yeah so I found that
table a table of contents does very well
based on the data that I have so far I'm
putting my products at the bottom of my
post and my general content at the top
seems to be actually doing better
some things are counterintuitive
sometimes based on on what I saw you I
need to have clear subtitles and
subsections where people can know where
they can click to get to it
something
gonna read through the whole thing so do
you want to jump right to the 5s blah
blah blah
he needs to be clear and it needs to be
spelled out where they can they can go
and how they can do it you know don't
use any funky colors like so things that
are unusual that people don't expect to
be there most people are used to things
being like a blue links for example as
opposed to bright pink or something
crazy you know people are inherently
accustomed to things working a certain
way you keep it as simple as possible
help make it easy for them to find what
they want and then go through your
content and it possibly behind click
click and buy and just want to double
check because there's a lot of different
sort of conversions or positive second
you may see and so by putting the top
five post or how the top five products
or whatever the choices are at the
bottom you're saying there's an
improvement what is the improve yes
sales is a time on site or what it was
actually to my time outside has seen me
pretty good
either way but for some reason sales was
better clicks and sales are better
specifically with the cut with the best
products with my product section on the
bottom I'm not 100% sure what it is
I think it's potentially trusts because
they see the pre-existing content before
they get there which kind of validates
this is a legitimate post this guy's got
a lot of information here I can go ahead
and just go in down here find one that's
my thought process but I'm not sure
about that that's a little bit harder to
figure out yeah I mean you really
wouldn't know and I guess the one thing
I can add is for example like a sales
page of which I've done many typically
you have from the you know all the
copywriting stuff that we've studied you
have like the story right you have the
story the background all the benefits
and those sort of things and then at the
very end then you go for the sale right
you don't jump right in and say click
here do like do do this although you
know sometimes people may put a link up
at the top and it's like you know if you
want to get right over at Amazon for
example but like on a sales page
typically you know you need to rope them
and
focus them and get them to pay attention
to the things that'll help them make the
decision which that totally makes sense
to you from what you said yeah yeah I
mean I mean I may say differently in the
future when I get more data because it's
all about making sure finding data you
know it's a couple different ways to do
it but based on what I've seen so far
that's correct I'm going to completely
change subject so let's look at a brisk
transition over to what why are you
doing this what what made you get
started on an affiliate marketing long
story short I forget how I did it but I
was cruising the internet years ago and
I saw guys who were living in another
country and making money online and blew
my mind and I I don't have those
software skills these guys had so I
couldn't do that
just as a regular contract worker living
remotely so I thought well how could it
make money online what's actually a real
long story sure that's how I found about
you my ultimate goal is I want the
freedom to travel live or I want to in
be my own boss and also have control of
what I produce and what I do I enjoy the
creative aspect and content and things
like that helping people is nice too you
know very cool I think I remember from
our first interview there were a couple
other people that you follow to do you
and I mention any I mean I'm happy oh
yeah absolutely you know yeah because
what I've found over time is just like a
handful of people who are really good
like you and a few other guys who are
really legit and have solid advice so of
course Doug Huntington Dom Wells and
human proofed designs the authority
authority hacker guys they all also have
podcasts as well as articles let's see
who else goodness actually a a trust has
their own YouTube channel it's short but
sweet and they provide a lot of even if
you don't use their tool there's a lot
of information there that applies to
affiliate marketing as well it's just
common is practical actionable stuff I
definitely highly recommend that but
those were the two or three biggest
names that come to mind right now
yeah cool I know all my mentioned yeah
all those guys are great I followed a
lot of them at some point in time still
do for some others at an age refs like
some of the best
like blog content because they have so
much data and have access to so much
information so yeah the YouTube channel
is very good their blog is fantastic if
you want like long-form case studies
where they like use data most of the
time you know it's really hard for
people to get that information and they
just have access to it so but we can say
oh I'm sorry I forgot one guy he was the
one who constantly down the road of
copywriting and how I actually did my
text links they're different than when I
started a kyle trouble who his site is
he's a big affiliate guy but he's also
in travel and things like that
not really Amazon but he is one of the
people who said you know try to reach
out to the reader with emotion and
Hylton them that way don't just have a
cold lock of text and also tried to make
your links flow naturally it helps to I
found that extremely helpful and it in
kind of it motivated me to learn more
about copywriting in the sales pitch and
things like that like you guys so I good
at no yeah it's super interesting like
if people are trying to like do the I
guess like next-level stuff
I think the copywriting is like super
valuable and I wish just working a
corporate job I was starting to throw in
some copywriting ideas in my like
business emails which was so much
different than you know you probably got
a ton of emails
work and stuff but like the terrible
writing where it's just blocks of text
and sometimes yeah you know they don't
get to the point you know there's no
executive summary and it's like a page
long and it could have been a paragraph
so just using copywriting like in
general to communicate is like super
helpful even if you don't think you need
it you know you'll probably appreciate
it it's a greatly underestimated the why
it's so important I was so naive about
this but it's true it's very important
one of the biggest things I learned
along the way was people often make a
buying decision based on emotion mm-hmm
and that's very powerful if you write
with that kind of stuff in mind and
appealing to a reader as opposed to
being a cold third-party style as you
write because that's what I did when I
started I went back and read it
all of that content and it's much better
now it's laid-back friendly I'm trying
to help you kind of style and here's why
it's great and it'll solve your problem
Yatta Yatta you know do you have a
handle on how much the conversion rate
improved from like the old old stuff -
you know how it stands now back then I
don't think I had tracked it very well
but it was a few percent back in the
original days but my mom I thought was
really young now I have urged somewhere
between 12 to 14 percent so as reported
from the Amazon dashboard yes you're
right you know so probably it sounds
like you went like a hundred percent
assuming it was like five or six percent
before so you basically double your
conversion rate yeah yeah I can pretty
confidently say that it's been pretty
steady at this level yep nice and I
think that doubled that low double-digit
range you know 10 12 14 percent it's
really high like not that many people
have that and I think that's probably
twofold
ones key word golden ratio which I know
you utilize and then the other is like
the solid copy writing and just
attention to like trying to improve that
stuff you know I made sure to have a my
user experience my sauce are very good
it's clear it looks like a good brand
that you would trust if you landed on my
page you had no idea I'd never been in
before it looks like a real brand easy
to read I don't give off any weird but
what's up like a lot of slates lights do
their to push you to buy something click
a button I try not to take that approach
at all I try to learn apply what I've
learned from from the big guys right you
know and it seems to be working very
well and almost actually a lot happier
with what I work on because of that -
it's a lot better about it
very good so going back to like your why
and why why you started the sides you
wanted to be able to travel work on some
get more interesting so just curious
like where do you want to travel just I
mean you could date out here tell me a
story if you're not sure so I do speak a
fair amount of Spanish and I've been to
some Latin countries but I've never been
to Asia and I never been to Europe and I
know that there's some guys you live
abroad who are making money
entrepreneurs they're living in Asia and
places like the Ukraine so I'd love to
go places like that stay for a while
maybe stay in Colombia for a couple
months at least have the opportunity
this kind of daydreaming as far as the
specifics off of iron that out when I
get there but I would love to go to
Ukraine for a while and then maybe some
parts of Asia who knows where sure the
the dollar goes pretty far in those
areas so yeah exactly have to have as
much you don't have to replace your day
job income necessarily so yeah I've
already got my I know nice to make a
budget needs to be my earnings versus
expenses the information is out there if
you just look around and try to find it
there's some solid answers out there and
there's guys already doing this and
they'll they laid out for you so sure
and I'll give a little shout out I'll
put links in the show notes and
description and all that stuff but my
friend Rob Atkinson he lived in Thailand
for a couple years or so but you know
when he moved out there with his wife
they basically like they were making
money online and then some sites got
penalized and I like dropped to zero but
luckily I mean they already had plane
tickets they were on the flag right so
like they had to figure it out and the
you know the cost of living there was
low enough he had some time to figure
things out and slowly like grew
everything back up it actually wasn't
even that slow it was a different time
back then in 2019 so he was able to get
things pumped back up pretty quick and
he's doing well so yeah and it's amazing
how many people I know who have sort of
a digital nomad type lifestyle which
would you travel around a bunch or would
you like kind of set up a home base I
think that was for a little short while
to travel around a little bit and out
set up home base once I found a place I
thought was a good fit you know yeah my
wife and I we we traveled like in the
u.s. we traveled with our dog who passed
away like years ago but we were we were
traveling around and
we were like we don't wanna go
international we want to bring the dog
everywhere so we traveled around the
u.s. and did road trips instead so
that's cool did a lot of domestic travel
now of course in the u.s. we didn't take
advantage of the you know dollar
arbitrage situation so like we went to
like more expensive cities most of the
time so it like was expensive but it was
cool to see other places of course yeah
so oh I forgot we also stayed like a
month so we would go somewhere and rent
a place set up shop so it's not like so
rushed cuz like you don't go on vacation
you feel like you have to do everything
and then you end up like really tired so
absolutely yeah so we would just stick
around for like a month we'd get to go
like shop at the stores live like locals
and we didn't feel rushed so anyway
alright for people that are maybe like
just getting started or maybe they
haven't started yet and they're thinking
hey that would be great to have more you
know income revenue coming in any tips
for people who are thinking of getting
started there's mo always boils down to
two things you need a good plan and you
need to always take action so they need
some kind of plan to know how to
approach this because I've actually
heard that come up sometimes people have
even bought ready-made site in and then
I don't know what to do you need a good
definitely recommend if I figure in each
site course its its actual stuff that
you do and it's a plan that's clear as
you here's how what you do on a point B
yada yada and then they need to just
really be consistent I see being serious
about doing the work you know keep ill
you're gonna make mistakes in the
beginning and it's okay because that's
just how it is it's a process right
nobody because nobody learns overnight
it becomes a millionaire you need to
just keep trying and keep learning and
you'll get better and better better and
smarter and smarter and smarter you'll
find more and more opportunities for
things like keywords and things to write
about and niche ideas whatever the case
may be and at least more success you
know to the point of using the
using a framework thanks for saying that
about my course I think I think it does
work pretty pretty well I did have this
has been a few weeks ago someone bought
the course they went through the first
couple units and have a very generous
return policy I do I try and force
people to do the work by the way with a
return policy like a train you know take
the risk away though right you got to
remove risk from a copywriting
perspective I remove the risk and I'm
like hey it's on me if you do the work
it should work out for you now this guy
or gal I'll just keep it generic this
person who got the course went through a
little bit and then they were like oh
you know what I already know that stuff
I don't think it's very useful I was
like well did you go through the
exercises did you brainstorm did you do
competition analysis like did you do the
work and they didn't and that's why they
were unfulfilled they just thought oh I
already know that stuff because I've
read about it I've heard it on a podcast
I've watched YouTube videos and it's not
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