hey what's up cutting tenir from niche
site project in this interview I talked
to Brett who is a 22 year old college
senior and he has a niche site that's
making between 500 and $750 per month
it's awesome because Brett contacted me
about a few months ago said he was gonna
try and implement the keyword golden
ratio and he was going to try and
publish a whole bunch of articles
without doing much link building well
fast forward a few months and he's done
that and in fact it's super impressive
because like I said he's in college so
this interview is really interesting if
you want to be inspired especially if
you are not sure if this stuff works
Brett is a great example and we go into
history with websites and stuff like
that it's interesting to note that he
had his first site when he was like 16
years old so he has a few years under
his belt but he really sort of hit a
stride in the last few months so without
further ado let's go to the interview
right now
hey what's up Huntington here from niche
site project this is a super interesting
interview because I don't even know
where it's gonna go
so I'm sitting with Brett right now
Brett how are you today I'm doing great
how are you doing pretty well it's
snowing right now it snowed like three
inches or so today and I'm kind of
locked inside the house I mean I could
drive around but I'm just like I don't
want to go out there it's like wet nasty
snow so by the way where are you located
well I am currently in Greensboro North
Carolina nice got some good barbecue
right on there pulled pork up stuff
right before I missed that up here in
Montana so so here's the deal with this
interview everyone and I guess Brad I'm
gonna bring you in on this because Brett
contacted me months ago we exchanged a
couple emails he said he was gonna like
try and work on his niche site fast
forward several months he said I've done
that I've made a lot of progress I've
published a lot of stuff and are you
actually making money right now I
I'm making between 500 to 750 a month
from the site super cool
so congratulations by the way that's
like the top half percent like most
people and never even started a site
even after they like know that they can
and then even fewer people continue
iterating on so congratulations like
that's really impressive and anyway so I
really don't know much about brat at all
other than we exchanged a few emails so
now I know you're from or you're in
South Carolina so what are you doing
there can you tell me like what you do
for your job how did you find Mitch site
so I'll just turn it over to you about
for the intro so I'm 22 years old
currently a senior in college and gonna
finish up this year and I originally got
into niche sites in affiliate marketing
all right six years ago maybe through
micro niche sites kind of super small
sites and kind of been on and off since
then had a little success in the
beginning and then kind of got lost
along the way God should catch it in so
you said six years ago
yeah program then gotcha and then did
you like launch his site but if I did
the math right you were like 16 or so so
did you actually launch the site back
then what happened I launched well my
very first site actually purchased of
blackhat world I bought it for like $49
or something like that was one of those
pre-built sites yeah and I bought that
and actually paid I don't know $50 or so
for backlinks actually ranked pretty
high and made a couple hundred dollars
nice the venturi it got penalized but
it's kind of in in and then from there
launched a few sites had a little
success and then I don't know over the
past five years I've probably made 20
sites or so okay cool cool it's always
interesting talking to people when they
are making some money on the side
especially you know five to seven
hundred I think that's a really good
spot that's probably worth like you
probably priced it out you probably have
a better idea
but that's probably worth like
twelve eighteen thousand depending on a
couple factors so pretty impressive but
like most of the time if I talked to
someone who has a site like that usually
they've like launched several maybe not
twenty but like they've launched several
along the way it's crazy you got started
when you were sixteen it blows my mind I
was like cutting grass and like washing
cars at that point in time so things are
shifting a little bit so cool so what
are you studying in school what school
to go to there the University of North
Carolina at Greensboro and I'm a
business administration major got it I
guess I'm curious like how you started
following me like what did you implement
cuz I know you contacted me a while back
just I guess bring people up to speed
with what you've done over the past say
eight months or so mm-hmm so the main
thing that stuck out to me about you was
the adding a bunch of content and not
focusing on backlinks as much but more
about finding low competition keywords
to go after so site I think I have
messaged you in the beginning of summer
somewhere in spring and late spring and
my original plan was to add 100 or so
articles based on low competition
keywords and put them all onto this site
and just see how it would improve
traffic and revenue and since then I
think I've added about 85 articles and I
mean I've seen great results so far
awesome and through the I guess through
that period of time did you do any
backlinking or anything
I had a few backlinks before then I
probably had five guest posts or so okay
then that period I probably got five to
ten more but not a huge amount
okay cool so it's like under twenty
total and your main focus was content
for sure like eighty five articles is a
lot to orchestrate I expect you did you
write them yourself or did you hire
someone out sourced 95 percent of them
okay
yeah that's the way to go I mean at that
volume it's like an insurmountable thing
I mean that's kind of unless you're a
writer yeah then it's really hard to do
so cool very cool and how old is is the
site right now site is a widow over 1
year old okay cool
and then when you first started it like
what was your approach is obviously it
wasn't like the content angle like you
shifted to so how did you approach like
keywords and stuff like that building
out the site a main focus then was
really on putting out like three or four
thousand word articles and just being
the best in my market because I thought
there's a pretty big gap and there
wasn't very much information in this
market so I just thought if I put out a
few of these big posts I'll probably be
ranking pretty high since it's the best
content right and then did that work it
took a little bit I kind of got
discouraged in the beginning because I
put out the content and then it didn't
immediately rank but right three months
later it started to rank so okay and
would you say rank did it ring click in
the top or where did it ring so I guess
in the first month or so is probably 40
or 50 maybe and the best were three
months and it was probably top 10 are
pretty close to top two gotcha
and then has it reached like number one
or is it still like in the top ten or
whatever there most of them now are in
top three or top five okay and that's
just with the you know under 20
backlinks generally okay cool nice well
like I said congratulations that's
pretty pretty impressive overall and I
can probably in not in this interview
but in another interview you sent me
some stats over so I'll share those
stats at least like where they were at
the time but it'll be interesting to
like keep you know track of like the
trajectory I'm particularly interested
in the retail season so I'll tell you a
secret that I don't talk about too often
don't tell anyone okay so the keyword
golden ratio by the way everyone that is
sort of the root of what Brett has been
working on what I've like talked about
for a couple years now
like the keyword golden
show is a way to like publish content
without having the build backlinks
backlinks will help but you generally
don't have to build backlinks and you'll
start getting some traction the thing
with the keyword golden ratio is you
publish a lot of content and like
individual users are going to your site
thereby buying something at Amazon and
they're putting other stuff in their
cart let's say one person is shopping
for one particular item which you review
they buy that item and they buy eight
other things for example the interesting
thing right I spend so much time trying
to convince people that it works that I
don't even get into any of the advanced
stuff like more savvy people eventually
ask the questions but instead of like
revenue going up like two or three times
over the retail season it goes up by
like eight or ten times because there's
more individual customers right and each
of those individual customers are doing
their holiday shopping they're all
buying eight items so instead of like
three individual customers you have like
ten and they're all buying eight items
so the math works out crazy and I like
hypothesize this a couple years ago and
sure enough when the retail season hit
like my revenue went up by like way more
than I expected so fingers crossed that
it will hold up for me that it'll hold
up for you because instead of making you
know five to seven hundred it could be
like four thousand you're like wow like
that came out of nowhere so you'll have
to let me know I'm really curious now I
talked a lot I'm gonna shut up you had
some questions for me and I think it'll
be useful because a lot of people are
sort of at a stage where maybe they had
a lot of content they have a little
revenue and it's kind of like all right
like 2.0 like what were you aiming for
now so I'll turn it over to you and you
ask me questions so my first question
really relates to finding Amazon
keywords because when you're interested
in adding all this content of course
it's going to get harder and harder to
find these keywords that are real
competition I go to Google and I'll like
look for like the main term I'll use
like permanent Parker I've just bought
some new permanent markers here I'll say
like best permanent marker and then I'll
see what comes up in like the
autosuggest
you probably heard this before from you
but the autosuggest and then once you
find like a couple terms you can keep
looking at the you know also related
searches down at the bottom so those are
great in conjunction with key words
everywhere the Chrome extension the free
Chrome extension you could like see the
search volume there so that's really
helpful with that you could find like
tons and tons of different keywords now
the couple paid tool options that you
can go after you can use SEMRush which
is a great sort of keyword research tool
it's an SEO marketing search engine
marketing suite and then a giraffe's
provides really similar information they
have great backlinks as far as their
database go semrush has kind of a poor
database of backlinks but that's not
their thing so either one of those tools
could be good to go to say your top 10
competitors like look at all of their
keywords like download the CSV is
combine everything and then start
filtering in like smart way so I can
tell you some options that I usually do
or they can get you in the right
direction but like the best stuff is
gonna be things that you figure out on
your own based on what I'm telling you
so I usually look for longer phrases so
like 4 words or more I'll look for
anything that contains best because
that's a buyer's head keyword I'll look
for verses right product X versus
product Y so you can look for anything
with verses those tend to convert really
well because of someone like far down
the sales funnel at that point they know
the two products are comparing and I
mean I don't have the math in front of
me but if you have like 5 or 6 products
that you could compare to each other
that's like many many like several
articles that you could write not all of
them are going to be like perfect as far
as like keyword volumes and the kgr and
if you could find it as an autosuggest
you should probably publish it because
that means at least
like one person's looking for it and
then further with those two things
you're gonna have like more keywords
then you'll be able to publish anyway
just because some rush and age refs have
so much data so as far as finding
keywords that's sort of like the deeper
dive that you can go into perfect and a
second question is just general internal
linking for large sites this website has
125 posts or so once it gets bigger and
bigger like internal linking gets pretty
important right so I guess like what
struggle do you have with it right now
so I mean my basic strategy has just
been I have a camera what it's called
one of those plugins that just shares
related posts and I also try to include
I was one or two or three links to
somehow related articles on my site okay
I think both of those are probably good
I don't go to plug-in route I I don't
know if this is true but I have a
feeling that Google doesn't like value
those as much as the end content link so
it may be sort of like a something that
I think because of like what I know
about backlinks and stuff like that so I
don't know if it's true but I don't use
one of those type plugins I do the you
know like in content like in the body of
the post I'll do links to other articles
it's great if they're related but I even
link to other stuff that's not really
related
you know it's an article about the the
marker but maybe I'll link to notebooks
or something like that so it's kind of
related but not not really I mean it's
the same kind of user that would be
interested in it but it's not really
tied to it and as far as like
implementing it or something like that
like there's no real shortcut right like
the way I do it is I get every single
URL on my site I did this I've done this
a couple times every single URL on my
site and then you just make sure there's
a link I mean you could hire I hire
someone to do it right so
basically like web research and like
being able to use WordPress but they go
in and they check to see like external
links they actually logged them and
document where they are there are tools
that could probably do this for you like
faster but at the point where like I see
like a certain post doesn't have
outbound links to you know in turn or
sorry internal links to the same to my
site right then I'll want to have some
added and then vice versa I want that
many links coming in so it is a purely
manual process I don't know a way to
like do it automatically because you
have to put an anchor text to write
every time you put a link in like you're
impacting the anchor text and that's
important too as far as like a strategy
just like slow and methodical if you
look at like the whole thing that you
have to do it's overwhelming but if
you're just like head you need to look
at one post today to post today do them
then and this is a remarkable thing like
when I actually interlink to my site
like everything moved up a little bit it
creates a really good passing link juice
through the site because what people
like to say so yeah help I guess
piggybacking off that do you have any
strategy for anchor text when you're
doing internal linking or is it just
kind of anything that's relevant or make
sense yeah really
anything that's relevant and makes sense
I know it can be more of a science and
there are you know specific ratios that
you want to stay and and all that stuff
but usually because I don't want my I
mean these are like writers and editors
who are doing this work for me so I
usually they're not SEO experts and I
don't actually want them to be SEO
experts because like I don't know where
they learn their chops or anything like
that so these are just like people that
can communicate while and they can read
and write well which is all I need so I
just tell them you know make it a long
phrase like a full sentence like it's
usually gonna be keyword rich maybe you
have the title in there but not always
so it's kind of just like hey whatever
makes sense team you can do that so
that's how I manage it another question
is
you use any other affiliate programs
other than Amazon no and then the caveat
like on my sites where the main goal is
Amazon I don't
there is one site where it's like in
another niche in a I have some like
Clickbank products uh more physical
products uh more info products but it's
in like another area I'm not as
interested in that it doesn't bring in a
lot of money there's not as much traffic
there it's like a hundred bucks a month
so I kind of I usually don't talk about
it but on the Amazon site like the goal
is Amazon like sales so I only focus on
that point as far as like share sale or
Commission Junction or anything like
that you can get like higher commission
rates potentially but often times you're
not gonna sell as many items this stuff
I was talking about before like if
someone is picking like one item they
buy it Commission Junction you obviously
only get credit on that one you don't
get credit for everything in their cart
that they're buying from Amazon so it's
a trade off and I'm sure for certain
niches where products aren't offered
well you're better off going with
something else or if there's an info
product that fits you can do that but I
I just I haven't messed with it and I
have a low interest in it what is your
favorite type of backlink whether it's
the easiest or what you found the most
effective for these white websites yeah
I think probably just like the guest
post angle just because that is the most
straightforward you know it seems to
have positive impact it may be a little
slower than other types of links but you
can do those in a way that is really
hard for your competitors to emulate and
copy and that's what I'm going for
I don't want someone to be able to just
go to my site check out my backlinks and
then pay to get the same links that I
have because they can see that all they
have to do is like offer money and then
they can get it so through building
relationships and making it like hard to
copy and hard to recreate it sort of
builds a moat hopefully around the
competition there around my site from
the competition rather to stick with the
moats
metaphor then I guess this con relates
the interlinking is there such thing as
too much cons are probably but I think
the risk is like keyword cannibalization
and for the people that aren't familiar
it's like if you have to post on your
site and they're like really similar
Google is ranking the wrong one for what
you want to rank and like basically your
cannibalizing your own results and zip
like that and with the keyword golden
ratio it's like likely to happen because
things are so closely related and it's
one of the biggest you know people are
really afraid they're afraid of putting
too much content having thin content and
they just don't do anything right you
didn't do that you published stuff you
tried it and you see what happens and
sometimes something ranks for what you
didn't intend to and then that's what I
do I just publish everything and then I
see what Google reacts to because I
could do something with data right let
me do something with the results and I
can adjust but the people that are
scared to even try to publish something
or they're afraid that Google isn't
gonna like it well then they have no
data and then either they don't do
anything or they're publishing stuff
it's just not gonna rank the same what I
usually do is combine the post and then
301 redirect the one that I moved right
it's a slightly technical kind of a pain
in the butt
but I don't do it that often because
frankly I don't check that often as far
as too much content like that would be
the risk otherwise I would say like for
these types of sites you could publish a
whole lot of stuff and you're gonna have
a whole lot of traffic it's probably
gonna be fine
and do you have like a specific example
where like maybe I just didn't mention
it I think you covered it pretty well so
if you had a site that Sarah my site has
125 or so posts and five potentially had
enough keywords to go a thousand posts
in the next year or two right and they
weren't too closely related say you'd
recommend just going after it
yes in general however I will tell you I
just published like over two
articles in the last like two months or
so and it costs six thousand ish dollars
maybe a little bit more so it was a
little pricey like the site's making
good money I've just reinvested so it
wasn't like out of pocket reinvested it
and when I took a step back I realized
that it was easier for me to spawn up a
Content team because I had pieces in
place already so I did that because it
was easier thing is if I would have
spent $6,000 on white hat outreach and
link building activities I maybe could
have gotten like 50 or 70 guest posts it
would have taken more time from me
because I would have to train the team
and stuff that's a lot of posts and that
I could have gotten maybe would have
taken a little bit longer and stuff like
that but I mean links can make a huge
difference especially let's let's just
pick a I guess a hypothetical example
without the specific keywords or a
specific keyword if I would have gotten
like 20 links to a specific post that
was say ranking number 3 and it has
8,000 searches per month that one page
alone could be worth like 10k a month so
you have to look at like the cost the
best ROI and as I took a step back I was
like ah I published so much content I
have been publishing a lot of content
but I haven't been doing the link
building part which is important when
you look at content that is not kgr
compliance so now I'm like okay I need
to dedicate resources to link building
and potentially like instead of adding
more content Brett like you maybe would
want to improve content that's doing
well maybe something's ranking number
two you only have a thousand words what
would happen if you made that 4,000
words long maybe you get like tons of
long tales that you didn't even know
we're out there and then you know even
if you don't move up to number one you
could like improve the traffic to that
page by a lot so instead of publishing
new stuff maybe just like double down on
what you already have that being said I
don't know if you have a specific answer
for this or if it depends on the site
itself
have you noticed between link building
and content if one has a better ROI I
think there's too many factors yeah
there's too many factors so I know like
for project go white hat if people
aren't familiar this was a site that I
worked on with my friend Rob and we took
it from like a gray hat site with
private blog network links and then we
got a bunch of white hat links to
replace him so this particular site I
think it only had like 45 pages when I
started working on it with Rob we added
more right we had a kid to our content
we briefed up the content was a good ROI
but also was a small site like
comparatively speaking it was pulling in
like 10k a month
the thing is Rob dedicated his resources
to the link building portion of it and
the private blog networks I don't know
his like upfront cost on that but I mean
he didn't have that many links going to
the site but it was pulling in you know
five figures a month so looking at that
I expect there's some blend there's
actually like best I think if you just
did content you're gonna have some
trouble and if you just did links you'll
have a little trouble but a lot of times
and that your project a white hat site
was like sort of proof of it the content
was not great
it was passable at best we had like
powerful links not many but we had
powerful links from this private blog
networks before we converted him over
and that like did pretty well if you
have a site I see more sites with a lot
of content with no links that don't do
anything so my my hunch is links are
probably like they're a little bit
harder they're a little more expensive
to do you can make more mistakes with it
so I have a feeling like there may be a
slightly better ROI on links ogor but
there's too many factors like if you put
them reeling can't mention who it is but
I was talking to someone recently they
have like 50 links to the
site which is good but they're only
making like $100 a month or so which is
not that great for that many links and
the amount of content that was on that
site and it was because like the way the
links were created the way they were
done these were white hat links to but
just the way everything played out like
it wasn't making rankings which is sad
cuz like that's a lot of links you
should be able to like just about rank
for anything with like 50 pure white hat
links so cool any other questions that
you could think of here I'm just kind of
unrelated question in the future of
affiliate sites do you think we're gonna
see you Wes and Wes I don't know small
sites 1015 page starts compared to your
hunger page sites you know probably I
feel like people are shifting that way
our sites are shifting that way just
generally because I mean I think when
affiliate marketers were doing like more
gray hat stuff sites tended to like get
penalized more often there was more
churn I feel like there's a group of
people that are building sites now that
are doing stuff that like you know
cements them in they're trying not to
break the rules like myself and stay
there and reinvest it's sort of like
firmly plant the site in place and
thinking brands and media companies not
just affiliate marketers so I think like
with that in place yes however there are
so many new products and like longtail
keywords and you know key word golden
ratio ideas out there that like you
could just keep going
sort of keep going and finding keywords
and have like smaller sites that like
start getting traction and then from
there of course you could like grow the
site a little more now the other part of
it is I mean things are gonna shift
right so like affiliate marketing will
shift and maybe there's a lot more video
out there right like maybe the there's
like a whole like group of people a
whole set of I guess YouTube type
affiliate sites where it's like based on
YouTube channel
I mean I know people do have they push
those products on or push products for
example like if it's a I watch a lot of
like how to do YouTube channel stuff so
they talk about cameras and stuff and
they're like recommending products I'm
sure they're doing really well those are
high-end
items like I purchased through those
links because you know they have good
reviews so I see like a shift like sort
of like that but I think all the skills
will stay the same
I sort of liked when I talked about what
you asked but I also like more stuff -
cool all right so Brett question for you
I guess what are your what are your
goals your senior now you're gonna
graduate soon are you looking to go into
the corporate world are you gonna keep
stuff on the side do you have any idea
like where where you're leaning right
now I mean the ultimate goal would
definitely be to make a full-time income
from sites I know
graduating and six months might not be
possible currently but eventually down
the road I think I'd like to be doing
affiliate marketing full-time cool cool
well it's totally possible a lot can
happen in a few months but the slight
risk with the affiliate sites is like
you don't control the traffic you don't
control the program so it's a little
dicey however you know you probably have
like fewer responsibilities now than you
will in a few years so if you're gonna
well if you're gonna pause on the the
corporate stuff now would be the time
but in this I'm sure there's like good
recruiting stuff happening around there
but yeah I don't know you know and I did
I talked to Matt diggety the other day
for an interview and he did like a
corporate job for like nine years well I
did one for like 10 and it sucked but I
think like the the stuff that I learned
in there the politics all the stuff that
we had to deal with we learned a lot
through it and it really translated well
but both he and I had sort of a tech
background and like an engineering
background so sort of the project
management the deliverables like all the
of structure stuff was good the politics
were bad we hated a lot of it but yeah
it's just interesting cuz like I learned
so much and it would have been cool to
be doing this sooner but I think I had
to go through all of it put everything
together so that probably doesn't help
you it probably confuses you more but
just wanted to throw that in
well thanks sure sure well it's great
catching up let's check in and you know
a few months see where you're at and
like January something like that so
thanks a lot Brett do you want people to
follow you anywhere or not follow you
anywhere or whatever totally up to you I
have a blog called passive Nisha's but
it hasn't been updated in a little while
so I have to get back on that passive
Nisha's calm okay cool we could edit
this to put the right thing so how about
fate doing people to follow you on
facebook or now okay so yeah maybe
people can follow you on Facebook and
that'll be like the place where you know
if they want to connect with you or
something like that in fact don't
connect with me connect with Brett
because I try and stay out of Facebook
but alright thanks again and we'll talk
soon see ya I want to thank Brett for
sharing his knowledge and experience
with niche types really appreciate him
taking the time out of his day and after
we finished the interview Brett
mentioned to me that like there his site
was like penalized for a bit so there's
another video on that so if you're
interested in hearing about a thin
content penalty and how to get out of it
check out the next video that should
there should be a card or some sort of
link coming up in a second and I'll link
it below as well so thanks again if
you're new to the channel if you're new
to niche sites please consider
subscribing
again I'm Doug Pennington from niche
site project and we'll see you around
Thanks
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