like what do you tell people like who
are not who don't run in these circles
what you do for a living and I usually
tell them that I run a website where I
teach people how to take care of their
pools and hot tubs and then the
conversation is like oh cool next thing
I don't care like I don't I don't own a
pool I don't care I started that in 2004
for over 10 years and that is my
flagship thing and from there I'd
started a personal finance podcast
called this in money matters my friend
Andrew and business partner you know I
was I did it for the first year or two
and then left for a couple years and
then came back so now we're doing it
again together those two are my biggest
projects and then I have a site called
money lab Co where I basically the idea
there was to take all of these things
that I was kind of doing behind the
scenes you know with some university
with lists of money matters with all
these other side projects that I have I
had a site called roasted coffee it was
a niche site that I ended up selling in
2018 and - I think somebody we both know
and I started a home brewing web site
and it's so so my my whole thing is like
for those round it that way I run a
digital media company we do digital
media and we make money through
affiliate links our own digital products
and sometimes sponsorships couple things
jump out and have me there so so number
one you started doing websites affiliate
marketing in 2005 ish yeah for how did
you get started do you remember the
first time you were like hey this is a
thing I can get into it wasn't even that
it was so I was in a band I didn't go to
college I was to pan instead and we
needed a website this is before myspace
so if there's any like context of where
we are in the timeline of the internet
before MySpace and we needed a website I
was working at this pool store which is
why I have the pool site because I've
been in the pool industry since I was 13
so like that just so I was sitting in
the pool store I was in a rock band we
needed a website and I was like okay
well I'm going to we couldn't afford a
website designer my dad had bought me a
computer for the college I was supposed
to go to and
ended up dropping out in two weeks twice
and I decided to learn HTML and CSS just
like to build my band's website so I did
that and then I was at work like double
checking it on the computers at work and
my boss caught me doing that where he
like was like you know went back to the
history cuz he's a psychopath and was
like uh who was looking up this site no
any obviously my face is on like the the
homepage and he's like just yours I'm
like obviously he goes did you make it I
was like yeah he's like okay and like
walked away and then hired me the next
day to do the company's website so I
started doing the company's web site and
then I started doing other web sites and
I ended up getting a job as a website
designer at another firm and then got
hired back to be the marketing director
of that company of the pool company so
from there I was like whoa okay I know
how to design websites I know how to
build them I know a lot about pools
there's a web site here I can I can do
something with this and that's when I
had the idea for some university I
started looking up how am I gonna make
money at this like how does this make
money and I found out about Adsense I
was like Oh Adsense got it and then I
found out about affiliate marketing and
I think at the time was a Google
double-click or something it's before my
time but that is a thing it was like I
know it's a thing they still use it yeah
YouTube but a legacy yeah yeah I had
there was an affiliate like kind of like
link share sure where I guess that's not
a call-in show anymore it's called I
don't know how to say that what do you
say that it confuses me but they have
commercials it's like right rat rather
to e right now that's a frakkin raccoon
to reckon tune reckon 10 I don't know
people are like ready yeah that's true
but that but that it was sort of like
that but Google had ran it and that was
what I was using for affiliate links and
the way that I did it then was my idea
was okay if you're reading an article
about pool algae you know how to get rid
of pool algae at the bottom I would have
four recommended products for performing
that action and I did that all manually
like individual HTML files for each
article and and manually put those all
in got it yeah and I'm gonna jump deep
into the weeds just for a second okay
back up
favorite place to go so a lot of times I
hear from people and they're like I have
an informational article can I recommend
products and the answer is exactly what
you said yes 100% because they have a
problem and you're like here's how you
can solve it and by the way here's how
you can do it faster easier cheaper
right that's a no-brainer like yeah when
you boil it down to that that is all
affiliate marketing is it can be the
ones who stand the test of time that's
what they do
right the ones that just kind of like
throw a dildo site together I'm just
like I'm gonna try to make money quickly
they end up failing very quickly right
let's be like really have a yeah so
there's a couple other things that your
intro just triggered yeah and one is
like your very number one you're super
authentic and some of the early content
that I saw from you back in like
2014-2015 is that when you started money
lab or something like that 2015 may be
okay so I saw some of the early stuff
and I was like man he's so like genuine
charismatic and authentic thank you and
going deeper you even you know you're
telling us about swimming university you
talked about the other site so what
makes you so comfortable to share the
sites that you're working on I never
understood why people were uncomfortable
okay I know why my business partner
Andrew he has he has a few secret sites
that he will not reveal on our show I
won't reveal and you know anything that
we do because he's deathly afraid of
competition he doesn't want he thinks he
found this little like you know niche
which he did and he doesn't want to give
the secret away especially to add to an
audience of people who do this and can
do it well so I don't have any fear of
competition I've never had I'm not a
competitive person
I'm not into sports I if people come
over to play video games I'm like good
you won I'm like I'm I don't care you
know if we play card games or board
games I'm so fine losing I'm just not a
competitive person and I think that's
why I don't mind sharing because the
other reason I don't mind sharing it's
much harder to hide than it is to share
I always criticize myself for not being
a good writer
I didn't go to college I failed at every
English class in high school I got
better like I tried to understand
grammar cuz I do like writing it's only
when I can just you know like free flow
I have to write about pool algae that's
a little tougher because like even
though I know it which is why I start at
the site it's like I don't really have
to go and research like I know what I've
told people for you know 15 20 years
like this is how you do it this is how
you do it it has worked for thousands of
pool owners
I just recite that in my own words on
the internet and I think the reason I
come off authentically is because I
don't have an education in grammar so
what I only know how to write like I
talk I've never had I've never been
formally trained I don't know how to
sound smart so I just learned how to use
semicolons and I'm like I'm trying not
to use them because I don't want to come
off pretentious and although I use them
in a couple hours did because I was like
I've it's fitting it's you know
especially like timing for jokes
but yeah I think it's because I didn't
like I wasn't good at formal writing
that I wrote free what do they call that
like free association kind of like free
form and then I go back and I clean up
the editing and the grammar and stuff
okay so it's like stream of conscious
that's what it is screamin stream of
consciousness I write that way and then
I go back or I'll usually do it while
I'm doing it so like I might write a
paragraph or two and then look at those
paragraphs and go okay how can I make
the sentence shorter or how can I say
the same thing but faster or how can I
pepper in a joke or a funnier word and
that was when I started money laugh I
you know I might we do that on Swim
University of my other sites but you
know I dislike it you know but no money
lab it's easy for me to just go like
this is what I'm working on like this is
just everything I do kind of like TMI
but I I always said like you know the
reason I started money lab is because
like those are the things I love
watching behind the scenes videos about
anything you know that to me is way more
educational than somebody telling me how
they do something just show me how you
do it I just want to see your process
and yes so you have a ton of case
studies and I think that is a much
easier
less maybe less formal way yes sort of
like a course or a hell class work yeah
right I know I mean I can write a how-to
but it's so much it's so draining for me
to do I don't like I mean that's why now
I can finally hire writers and go okay
thank I don't have to write about Pulau
Janie Morris is great
but before I would that's why I was
doing all of that stuff and it's so
funny because you know somebody who who
did fail every English class and who did
dropped out dropped out of college
because of an English teacher who failed
me on a how-to article this is what I
ended up doing for a living so I feel
like really hard for me to recommend
college to people when when this thing
happens to me but you know obviously I
got into a thing that you don't really
need a college education for but some
things you do like doctors lawyers they
need to go right right
you
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