hey what's going on
welcome to the Doug show my name is Doug
Pennington in this interview I talked to
Marty McLeod who's on the show here for
the third time this is very interesting
because number one Marty is a student
five figure niche site so it's cool to
you know be able to brag on one of my
students number two
marty is like a awesome fixture in the
niche site project community super
helpful on the YouTube channel Facebook
groups he's active in multiple Facebook
groups which is you know way more than I
am because I'm basically not active at
all in any Facebook groups anymore even
my even my own but the cool thing is
Marty has hit three thousand dollars per
month with his Amazon affiliate site and
it has not been without work it's been a
ton of work and the first two episodes
that Marty was on was sort of a similar
interview style although this one's a
tad shorter cuz we're just hitting the
updates but the first time he was on he
hit his initial goal of $500 per month a
few months later he hit $1,000 per month
that was another one of his milestones
and I think he had a goal set for $2,000
a month but at the time we're recording
this he has blown past that $2,000 per
month mark and he's been doing about 3k
per month for about three months at
recorded the interview so if you want to
hit Marty up you could probably find him
around and like I said different
Facebook groups out there you can
probably find them out there on YouTube
and the chat and comments and that sort
of thing definitely check out the other
episodes if you have not listened to
them and by the way those I think
Marty's other two episodes are like two
out of the three most popular downloaded
episodes for the Doug show and like I
said he's been on the YouTube channel
some as well so I will I'm gonna stop
rambling on and just send it over to the
interview
and thanks a lot Marty for joining me
and talking to me on the Doug show hey
what's going on it's Doug Pennington
here and I'm with my good buddy
Marty McLeod how are you today I'm great
doc appreciate it so we have a great
success story interview because Marty's
been on I don't even remember how many
times at least two maybe three other
times and you hit I think five hundred
dollars of first time and then at
thousand and I will let you say the
recent milestone that you hit so where
are you out right now with earnings yep
I am it I'm happy very happy to say and
I'm at just over three thousand dollars
a month awesome and is it a fluke did
you just hit like 3k a month or and like
you've only done it once I think it
March I was like close to 25 26 I forget
exactly so it was traffic still growing
so it ended up after that I actually hit
it and I didn't think I was going to do
it but it was a nice surprise awesome
so it's been three months straight if
I'm very much straight congratulations
this is huge like accomplishment I know
you appreciate it because the trenches
doing off the whole time so exactly like
were the people that haven't watched the
other interviews first watch the other
interviews but can you give a little
intro about yourself Marty and like just
your journey so far so big big question
but feel free to take your time and I'll
try to keep it to the bullet points as
they say so originally I and a couple
years ago I tried building and a niche
site on my own it was a flop I had no
idea what I was doing I didn't know how
to find keywords I didn't understand
competition yadda yadda yadda then I was
a student of your five figure nature
site course and that helped me get a
much better game plan and I built my
first site and I've been working on it
ever since I should have to
however like 95 or about 95 percent of
the income comes from that main site and
is still growing now and I've just been
cut consistent
working on it ever since I started your
course and I'm at as of this week at 81
posts on that side sweet amazing so I do
I appreciate you mentioning the course
but I know that you've learned from many
people and I will just give you it even
early in the video I'm gonna give you a
chance you can spit out some other
podcast you like other blogs whatever
who else did did you learn from who
influenced you along the way here yeah I
also learned a little bit from Kyle
trouble I learned from podcasts as well
and articles from human proofed designs
Authority hacker guys a little bit from
niche pursuits Spencer Hawes and I
actually picked up a little bit from
Johnny f DS trouble like a boss which
covers a wide range of things but some
people and they were actually affiliate
marketers too so you know motivation as
well but the SEO stuff stuff like that
learn from you guys and you and the
other guys like that you know the nuts
and bolts if you will I think that
covers a lot of it now
okay yeah I'm fans of a lot of the
people that you mentioned too and as I
was coming up I mean we all learned from
different sources like I said I
appreciate you mention the course but
hey everybody you know you can learn
from all sorts of people I mean one of
the reasons why I like talking to you
Marty some of the other people in the
course is you guys are really smart
you're smarter than me in many different
ways
and I can learn from everyone so I
encourage everyone to take that approach
as well yeah so I know people are
wondering one of the details on the site
and that sort of thing so we're not
gonna reveal it or anything like that
but you mentioned like 80 post or so so
can you talk about like the number of
like keywords you had when you started
and how long it took you to get to 80
post and are you adding a lot more
content and just sort of the content
keyword area tell us about that okay so
the well of course in your course we
start off with a 10 post and 10 post
grant as you can tell us to do you know
and as far as keywords
can you clarify that question about the
keywords sorry
sure sure just did you start with like a
bunch of keywords like 4000 or like 300
or like 15 oh I'm sorry
back then I started with the the list
from that niche which it was a I forget
is probably 50 or something and of
course I had to evaluate what I can use
ever since then I've been gotten better
and better better I used to do a handful
at time but now I've got more efficient
and I'm getting a list of a couple
hundred of time and I go through them
and sort through them and evaluates them
and then I move from there you know and
for me personally I have not had the
best luck with writers to this point
which is still an issue I had figure out
of course so I've been doing all content
myself okay just also I mean that's
really hard work and it's take it slowed
me down because I averaged two maybe
three posts a week on a good week but at
the same time the things that I've
learned have never really paid off you
know they really have gotcha so you're
publishing about two to three posts per
week yeah okay how long are those posts
oh gosh they easily average 2,500 words
minimum because I've dug in my heels and
as far as quality goes and when I
optimize for multiple keywords that ends
up naturally without any fluff ends up
being a longer content so for some of
them it's it is 3,000 3,500
yeah it just kind of ends up once like
got better and it did kind of combine
naturally doing all right so you you're
putting out about 10,000 words a week is
that what you're telling me that's
probably about right it really depends
on the if it's new material had to learn
it slows down and it could be one and a
half that I get done or two but I would
roughly about 2 is about right yeah
about 2 then between 6 and 10 thousand
you know words it's probably better plus
the images I images take time - okay
well what about images do you do you
like just buy them from a like some
content site or something like that or
just I've done
a couple different things some things I
do there's some free stuff out there and
what I do is I create my own generally
speaking and except for Pride images I
created a lot of stuff myself and I'll
take free stuff and I'll edit it in it
with something else
flatten my own text in a free editor
like paint.net and maybe used to plug in
to help me achieve little improve the
quality of the images and not I make my
own my own clipart sometimes now and I
can edit an image and have it target
whatever the topic is and have a nice
little image with some little clipart
it's a nice looking picture that I think
people would like and help help just
break up a text you know sure that's one
of the goals and if people want to see
an example of this Marty actually wrote
a few posts for me over a niche site
project and he had some of his beautiful
art in there which looks good you know
because I don't do that stuff myself I
just usually I'll grab like an image or
something like that if it's relevant I
really lean heavily on like case studies
so I could just put data on there
because it's late I mean it's useful but
it's less true so okay so you guys you
got pretty long content you're you think
high quality is pretty important for
your particular niche or would you say
that's kind of across the board I feel
like it's across the board at least to
some degree I mean I know that I do
really I go pretty far with mine and
that's benefited me but not everyone can
or will I think that you should have at
least a certain level because I I've
seen so many niche sites out there that
are just really bad and it's very
obvious they're stuffing it but just
with fluff and I feel like that's really
harmful to your reader or viewer
interaction because I feel like that's
gonna that's that's gonna burn you you
know it's very easy to tell when
something is really focused on
delivering value to the reader and when
it's not and I that is what I try to do
that I try to do slider will this help
somebody is this what you're looking for
answered the search query have to make
the right purchase for them that's what
I exactly what I try to do very good now
as far as like going back and like
iterating on the content improving areas
that maybe you thought you did a really
good job on but maybe you left some
stuff out do you do you go back and
improve iterate yeah definitely and that
especially not too long after probably a
six-month second site got started
getting a little bit of trickle of
traffic out when I went back and looked
at how I originally did stuff I thought
wow that was that I redid all of it and
I started off with a better in a better
way I changed to conversational style
writing but yes periodically I do go
back and have to check stuff and it's
inevitable I think when you're learning
and you get better a little bit of time
you go back and think all in something
two weeks ago you would never would have
done it that way anymore and you say oh
I can improve this why don't I go ahead
and do that one here I do like to do
that you just answer your question yeah
definitely okay and do you have like a
systematic way to approach that with an
80 articles different quality different
you know time when you wrote them how do
you tackle that well like for example
right now I'm going back in and changing
some relatively minor stuff so I in my
Google sheets I've kept track of all my
post URLs yada yada yada dates revision
dates I do it that way so I can check
off what I have worked on what I have
not and I you know if I need to add
notes there I can that I think that's or
some kind of organized way of knowing
what you have what you've done and where
you are if you need to go to the list
something like that you know okay
that's what I like to do and then is far
enough asleep we're focusing a lot on
content I'm trying to think of all the
questions that people have so okay and
things that I like I try to emphasize
for people but one of them is
interlinking through a set so I expect
you have interlink some yes
now did you start at the very beginning
and you've kept that up or did you have
to go back and like sort of rework it as
you built the site out yeah I've had I
think it's natural that you may go back
and rework it a bit because one one good
reason and when you were asking about
I'm backing in fixing posts doing some
updates it's I think I feel like at some
point it's inevitable that you're gonna
add some new post that were relevant to
stuff that's old and that you did not
have back to the end it makes a lot more
sense to link to them now as opposed to
what you did in the beginning actually
that happened recently I had four in you
for new info posts and they're all
extremely relevant to each other it's
just a specific or different so I enter
like those but they didn't all exist at
the same time so once before we're done
I went back and I updated all the other
three you know for example got sure made
sure I had took advantage of that
okay exactly like that that's just an
example okay that's perfect because that
I mean you don't know you don't know
that you're gonna publish stuff in the
future yeah and you know there's
probably really relevant stuff that you
can link to and then you get the SEO
benefit from it so now external links
some people are very nervous to quote
you know let their link juice you know
leak out into the world or whatever is a
really weird way for me to ask that
question but do you add external links
to like authority sites other references
bigger sites maybe competitors like do
you care or what do you think -
generally at this point time and I'm
always looking you know isn't trying to
learn learn and improve but right now
what I'll do is typically I have a few
links to us I have one by one -
something like Wikipedia one of the hats
tough work sites I usually like to check
the authority in the validate the site
in Google's eyes you know or something
cylinder that and stuff like that you
know if I have a like if I have a
technical term that's a great
opportunity for me to link to that
definition in Wikipedia that's it this
is exactly a perfect example of what I
like to do two to three tonnes in
opposed I do that I've heard in a read
that that's a really good idea I don't
know that's true but that is my my
practice right moron okay and I don't
have any real data but I I read
something
heard something ones that like wouldn't
it be good if Google thought you were a
hub of information and you're like
sending people to other like good
references and I thought yeah that
actually makes sense to me I like it
when I land on a site and I want to do
more information or I want to find more
information and I can follow a link is
actually relevant this not like garbage
so yes I think that makes sense again it
goes back to what you mentioned before
like a visitor lands on your site it may
have some problem like they're trying to
get help from you somehow and if you
could help them get more information
well that's perfect right so huh very
good now what about competitors you ever
link out to competitors uh-uh not
competitors directly I've done a few
with people and somewhat related but not
competing neat Nisha's I don't think
I've conducted orders yet unless I read
there might be a rare instance where I
had a really good reason to do so for
something that's a little bit harder to
find for a definition or something like
that but generally the rule I do not
know okay and I'll just throw in a
tidbit here I have done that especially
when I found like the information useful
because again in my mind I was like well
I used him as a reference so I may as
well link to him so that's one little
tip that the other is I linked to the
manufacturers site often to the manual
because that's non competitive and it's
like well that's good information
basically all PDFs for manuals are like
available free on the website yeah so I
usually put one or two of those in the
post if I can you know I do that and
I've noticed where keywords are actually
people searching for manual download for
xx product and I'll actually have that
available as a download you can even put
a little button in there you know and so
I get interesting answer text text and
everything you know so you're like you
you're getting traffic and like people
are looking for the manual and they're
getting it from your site versus the
manufacturer I
I need I'm not sure how much that's
helped but I tried to take advantage of
very little opportunity like that and I
also do that as second reason for doing
videos when I'm given this information I
try to establish my my pose to something
someone authoritative and I know what
I'm talking about and that is that as to
that my might from my perspective you
know yes you know I agree cool
so any other details on like content
that you think may be useful to share
here yeah you need to make it easy for
people to read conversational style
English is ideal in that includes using
contractions you're not writing academic
style when I started I did it completely
wrong and had go back and fix it Eirene
a casual friendly way do you have data
make it clear use a simple clear table
that's that looks good and mobile
because I still see this problem a lot
on mobile a lot of people's tables are
just horrible and that you can't nobody
wants to swipe over all the way over
just just to see it so always make sure
that my tables look good on mobile if if
it doesn't work one way I'll figure out
another way I'll break it apart or
something yep use your h2 h3 x' organize
your content break it up and they'll
make it too long you know if you're not
using Yoast find some way of getting
writing suggestions to try to help break
up sentences that are super long you
know the basic stuff about making stuff
easy to read I again I use images
because I think that they people find
them appealing especially you know if
you're gonna do that use clear images
that are size the right size don't
enlarge a teeny tiny fuzzy picture that
looks really bad and it looks like
you're not doing a very good job just
try to come across as you're trying to
help the reader as much as possible and
at this point in time I learned avoid
saying buy this now I said I'll say
something like I use a more copywriting
style of saying it's he is great for
these reasons here you can go check out
why it's one of the best selling
products get Amazon and that'll be my
link that's a tip I picked up from
contra you know I kind of make it a
casual way segue to
clicking on the link and it seems to be
working pretty well very cool yeah I
when I see buttons for example like
buttons it's like by now like super
aggressive stuff yeah a little too much
not like I prefer like you said a little
saw like you want people to want to go
over there you want them to be a little
curious and like you said copywriting is
a valuable skill to use especially when
you're trying to sell something and
provide information without coming off
like you're really pushing it so yeah I
do have one more small thing I could add
to that when you're talking about
content so I've noticed that some people
have had done things where they have
call-to-action at the top but there's
nothing at the bottom but usually when
people read and they evaluate something
mentally before they click on it you
have a natural flow of here's the name
there are some pictures here's some
information maybe your pros and cons and
then you have call to action and it's no
coincidence that a lot of people who
aren't getting sales are doing the
opposite they have it at the top and a
lot of times it's actually in a way that
people don't even know they should click
on that so it doesn't make sense why
don't you click on something before you
read about it so natural flow down to
the call of action is a more logical and
seem to work well you know nice and to
that point you hadn't asked you to pull
any numbers ahead of time or anything
like that but like do you remember your
rough conversion rate as reported on
Amazon yeah as reported on Amazon it's
around just a little bit over 10% on
average yeah that's pretty high what do
you attribute that to
I'm sure a lot of it has to do with what
I just mentioned the things I just
mentioned I and the fact that I'm not
trying the aggressive approach which
data shows that's not right instead of
saying buy it now I imply that here I
give you the reasons why you should buy
it and if there's something should
consider before it to not buy it but
something else I'll tell you why and
then I suggest that it would be a great
you go have a look at and considered
that style of writing I think
contributes a lot to it I Kurt Phillips
of convert ago
so that your your job should be to help
make them make up their mind before they
click on the link so that when they end
up at Amazon they're more than likely
going to go and buy it and that is what
I try really hard to do I think that
that has a lot to do with that and also
the user experience on my sites is good
so it's nice and clean it looks like I
know I'm talking about and it I believe
so for Matt my hunch is that and I
suspect it's true that if you give a
good experience and you come across as
being an authority people more likely to
trust you in Dubai I think that
influences this you know the mental
cells I suspect that's my opinion
okay and I will also you didn't say this
but you're getting the right visitors on
your site because even if you did all
that stuff if you get the wrong person
on your site not gonna help so so you
starts with getting the right person on
there and then like you you nurture them
all the way over to Amazon and you're
doing a great job so cool so we're gonna
hit some a couple like faster questions
here so tools I tools and themes and
plugins all the stuff that I basically
don't think really matters but I know
people care about I'm gonna ask it
can you just list out some of the tools
you'd like to use the theme you're using
if you want to share it some plugins
that you feel are essential or if you
share my opinion you could say that -
okay I do okay one of the most important
things that for the keyword research
process is I personally use HR else but
I know that that's not critical so don't
don't believe that you have to do that
because I using it I just like having
massive amount of data which leads me to
my next tool to do I oughta make the
whole entire process so I use a
inexpensive tool from us a guy a guy
site American guy sign name screw
scrapers and behinds and it'll actually
at this point if I should do the
autocomplete scraping but most the time
I describe all entitled values and I
export them and I have my huge keyword
list and I put those together and it
helps me go
through a ton keywords in short amount
of time rather than manually have you do
it see of course I mentioned the the
paint the image editor I use this
paint.net and it's free and I got a free
plugin it helps me do more features that
it was originally missing net that it's
actually pretty good for to be free
it really is once you get the hang of it
Google drawing you sometimes that's
helped me for a lot of my stuff in these
diagrams and people love that stuff and
don't use em as paint or something like
that don't have asset you can do great
stuff in a free tool like Google
drawings you can you can do other stuff
too doesn't have to be technical stuff
that's helped me a lot because now I can
copy them tweak it and then using
something a new version and another post
and save myself that working time let's
see what else goodness alright covered a
lot so yeah yeah it would research some
of your graphic stuff do you write
directly into WordPress or do you write
somewhere else
yeah personally I still you writing
drugs in the WordPress yeah which is
fine back in the day like WordPress
didn't save things as you get so I would
like type up 2000 words and then like it
wouldn't save and I would I lost it all
so I still have that in my head but no
but now it saves it in the browser so
you're kind of free from that so okay
and I know if you think of any other
tools feel free to mark we didn't talk
about link building which I believe is
an important thing I know some people
are like link building is evil you'll
you'll die if you link build which I
mean everyone's gonna die we got serious
really quick here but sure basically
yeah again we're talking about SEO tools
so we gotta lighten it up a little bit
okay sure now now everyone's paying
attention again and I'm curious have you
done much link building because I
believe it's very critical however I
know a lot of people have been able to
get by without doing any link building
so were you out with your site I haven't
done it in the last couple of months I
just I've been so focused
unlimited I kept trying to work on
content and things like that and uh in
fixing any problems that popped up so I
haven't done in a while in the past I
had yeah okay and then what did you do
when you were doing some link building
I guess posts and then a few I've gotten
a feelings from other guys Heights to
certain articles and I've done other
people the same flavor as well let's see
I think those were the two biggest well
oh the commenting originally when I
started course coming up when my site
was where I knew I did a lot of quite a
bit of commenting blog coming yeah okay
did you find the blog commenting helpful
at all cuz a lot of people are like it's
a total waste of time and so what did
you find I it's hard I don't have data
to back it up but I I think that it did
help some yeah it's I think that in some
cases I had post where mmm I was too
ambitious with keyword it was it was
just something I wasn't gonna have the
the level required for me to rank higher
was steeper than I understood back then
but now it's gotten things I've gotten
easier and something like that anymore
more effective you know gotcha and do
you know like roughly how many guest
posts do you got yeah I think it's still
around I think we're probably 30 or
something okay okay
and then so you're doing well right you
did some like guest posting and I'm
curious like are you ranking as high as
you can for you know quite a few posts
the reason why I'm asking is a lot of
times I see people don't reach like the
potential and they're like no I'm just
gonna keep publishing more kinds I'm not
suggesting you're doing that I'm sure
I'm asking it that way though like I do
see people they're like well the link
building I'm not sure if it worked but I
know the content worked so I'm just
gonna stick with the content so is are
you do you believe that you could rank
higher and get more traffic make more
money if you did more link building yeah
I do definitely and also improving the
the post versus my competitors
ranking you I've actually just recently
started tinkering with page optimizer
crow I just have implemented changes yet
I was just doing something else I
actually was doing something not related
to that to go through my post and update
some small stuff and then I'll work on
next thing I know they're links I do
know that I still have value I mean you
know the data is out there at the tests
that have been done so it's definitely
something you can't ignore it it makes
it just makes too much sense that
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