hey what's up Huntington here from niche
site project today I interview a friend
of mine named Ravi Raman and this is my
favorite interview to date
Ravi worked at Microsoft for 14 years
before he decided to go out on his own
and he has a pretty awesome story he and
his wife traveled for about a year and a
half or so and Ravi tells us all the
details and the thought process of going
from an executive at Microsoft to a
location independent entrepreneur and I
actually met him just at a conference
the converted conference just randomly
just walked up started talking realized
we had a whole lot in common and now we
did this interview so let's just get
right to it and talk to Robbie all right
Robbie what did you have for breakfast
today nothing absolutely nothing so I
have coffee here it's like half decaf
okay smart yeah I've learned that this
works for me I've actually been doing
the mushroom and you know for sig Matic
it's got mushroom it's Tim Ferriss has
been yeah this is normal stuff this is
normal coffee but I've been doing more
of the mushroom coffee and its really
really good okay cool like I heard the
commercial again I usually fast-forward
through his commercials but then I heard
him talking about it again I was like oh
maybe I should try it out so it is it's
pretty good it's so it's 40 milligrams
of caffeine a standard Starbucks a
grande drip from Starbucks like 300 or
250 this is 40 you're gonna notice the
boost but what's interesting is the
mushrooms it's you get more of a boost
than you would expect from 40 milligrams
and the mushroom it just seems like
there's no crash nice you know cuz the
mushrooms are these like super
adaptogenic herbs that help your body
wake up and get going naturally so I
really like it it also if you deal with
any acid reflux issues or have any upset
stomach with too much coffee this
doesn't have that so I think she already
good interesting yeah I drink way too
much I've tried to taper it down and
move over to tea more like matcha green
tea I think that's bad it doesn't have
the same crash
anyway enough about caffeine stuff all
right I'll do are this the levels look
pretty good so hey what's up duck
Huntington here and I'm sitting with my
friend Ravi welcome yeah great to be
here Doug so Ravi and I are gonna talk a
little bit about the location
independent lifestyle digital Nomad
stuff and Ravi actually has like a
pretty interesting like history on how
he ended up being location independent
so basically my audience probably
doesn't know who you are at all Ralph
Ravi so can you just give a little
introduction on yourself yeah my name is
Ravi I am an executive coach now though
in a past life I worked in technology I
spent 14 years at Microsoft leading
teams until I realized that well we'll
talk about it I realized that I needed a
change and now I'm an executive coach I
live outside of Denver in Morrison
Colorado so if you've heard of Red Rocks
Amphitheatre that's a couple miles away
and I work with people mostly in the US
but all over the place helping them
build businesses advance their careers
and in some cases find new careers
with the executive coach is that like a
life coach that I see these weird ads
for some well so I don't call myself a
life coach but I believe I believe that
an important question we all need to ask
ourselves is what would an outstanding
life look like and so I'm an executive
coach because I work with people who are
professionals mostly in the tech
business sure mostly mid to upper level
folks they're not looking for a life
coach they're looking for leadership
confidence all this fancy stuff but the
truth is they just want to be happy be
more successful and not have to work
themselves to the bone and they want to
live a good life so under the covers yes
I'm proud to say I'm a life coach but I
I call myself executive coach because
that's what people are looking for yeah
I help people set goals accomplish more
in their careers and have more fun in
the process
awesome and one other area and I'm
pressing you a little bit Ravi just to
make sure everyone
knows you're a good dude and you're like
a certified coach right you're not a
person who called themselves a coach and
so can you tell me about that a little
bit well I went on Craigslist yeah a lot
of certificate right so here's another
wall yeah here's the thing I didn't know
I was gonna be a coach when I you know
years ago I spent 14 years building
products as a strategy product Managing
Director of Product Management Director
of Product Planning I led teams I loved
building products and I worked at
Microsoft for my whole adult life and
we'll talk a little bit about my
transition but I didn't leave Microsoft
to go become a coach to make a bunch of
money and relax on a beach I chose the
path because I've worked with coaches
throughout my career
they've been life-changing they've
helped me get ahead in my career they've
in fact it was working with a coach that
led me to face the fact that I needed to
take my life in a different direction
and actually leave my job and had I not
worked with a coach and been part of
groups mastermind type groups I wouldn't
have faced that challenge I wouldn't
have made that decision so that's what
led me to coaching I am a certified they
call it PCC coach right so I'm a
professionally certified coach with the
International coach Federation and
active in the Colorado chapter so I
believe if someone's a coach there are
some fantastic coaches who are not
certified however if you care about your
craft you should probably go and walk
the path get the certifications and go
down that path so that's that's how I've
treated it and and what I've done so I'd
like to think I'm legit thank you for
letting me push you on that I didn't
tell you I was gonna ask like harder
questions at the beginning but I want to
establish right away for everyone that
like you know what you're talking about
like you've done the corporate thing
you've transitioned you treated your you
know your new position your new role as
an executive coach with the same sort of
tenacity that you approached your
corporate career and that's awesome
because a lot of people maybe
they wouldn't do that so now I I guess
let's talk about that transition so you
had 14 years under your about from an
external position I mean like you made
or an external point of view you made it
right like you were working at a great
company in your high level and it sounds
like that's a pretty fast track that you
are on so can you tell me like how you
ended up right there before you
transition up well to paint the picture
for most of my adult life I lived like a
monk so I was also a yoga teacher while
I worked in the corporate job so my
whole life were revolved around you know
teaching and practicing yoga and then
going to work and that was my life and I
really lived like a monk and then in
those few years before I left my job I
ended up getting married ended up buying
a big house getting a fancy car and then
furnishing the big house
and sort of living that lifestyle until
I I just realized that and it actually
happened it's it's gonna sound really
corny but it's how it actually went down
my life was so busy that I got married
and you know two days after our wedding
so I tones a family in town from all
over the world a great wedding and then
24 hours later I was packing my bags and
36 hours later I was on a plane to
Europe for work and it hit me that this
was crazy that you know it was no longer
about my life but it was about my life
with my wife and and I wanted it to be
different now the decisions I was making
as a single guy were different because
it fine just go fly around it's not a
big deal but when when I was in a
partnership things change but I stuck
with it I didn't quit my job I just
stuck with it I kept saying thinking
okay things are gonna get better and
they actually did but I was so busy we
couldn't actually go on our honeymoon
after our wedding it was months later
and months later we finally did go on
her honeymoon and I was on a beach okay
relaxing for the first time in many
years and it hit me that I was living
the life of a 22 year old a 25 year old
the kind of life that I loved when I was
working like that but I was no longer 22
us no longer 25 and what I cared about
in my life had changed but I was
operating from an old set of software
right it's like I was being driven by
outdated software and I just woke up the
fact that I needed to really get in
touch with what I cared about and then
start designing my life around that and
you know I had worked with coaches my
whole life and I knew the answers to
those questions that I knew it didn't it
didn't mean me staying in the current
job I knew that I didn't know what was
next but at least I knew okay I need to
make a change and it just so happened my
wife also realized okay she was working
for another company she had already
planned to leave her job and then she's
a therapist a counseling counselor so
she was just gonna open a private
practice so she had already made that
decision a while back and then we both
decided well if one of us are leaving
her job why don't we both do it and that
was the that was the moment when
everything really changed gotcha
so that's great that your wife was on
board at the same time in you know when
you tell the story it sounds like you
guys talked about it and figured it out
pretty quick but how many months did it
actually take of like talking about it
thinking about like hey this isn't right
for me right it took a little while so
I've mulled the idea over for many many
years it seems like every year I'd Mull
it over you know as we go into the
wintertime I like Mull it over then I
shelve the idea right
so after about five years in my
corporate job every year I'd sort of
think about it and then she'll have the
idea and just be committed for gauger
right but but this was different cuz
we've gotten married we had just we had
just settled down and had everything
like I got a big promotion in my job her
career everything was great
and and then we realized okay this is
the wrong direction and my wife and I
are very different personalities she's
very much go with the flow I'm very much
let's plan 10 years into the future and
so for her it was much easier decision
and actually it was hearing her thought
process about it that changed it for me
because she would say seemingly innocent
like huh Ravi you know you could always
leave your job and if you change your
mind to go back literally that innocent
and at first I would be like oh I could
wait she's right she's actually right I
could leave and go back I could leave
and take a gap year you know I'd say
we'd save I'd saved up some money so we
could travel and then go back to the job
you know I wasn't gonna burn any bridges
sure so it really did happen pretty
quickly now I had thought about it for a
long time but the decision was was a
line in the sand that happened when we
were on our honeymoon and we both
decided this is what's gonna happen so I
actually when we flew back home I met
with my boss and we talked about it and
worked out a transition plan so got my
replacement day and moved my team over
and then I actually ended up going on
sabbatical sort of a leave for a couple
months sure and then before I resigned
that's awesome now so your wife's on
board about your your family and friends
so do you brothers and sisters like I'm
the youngest so I have an elder brother
elder sister so look I'm the child of
immigrants my parents didn't have the
opportunities I did they immigrated from
India to the US in the early 70s late
60s you know they worked hard their
whole life and so I was raised in a
culture that valued education valued
hard work valued giving it your full
effort to whatever you do and our
culture was you know you get a good job
and you stay there and the thing I
realized is that sometimes the people
who love you the most and know you the
best don't want to see you change
because they don't want to see you hurt
and so look my family now supportive no
matter what I do at the time I mean they
were calling me crazy like I mean it's
like you're leaving an amazing job
looking all this stock on the table you
know for what and and even my name of my
friends they're like you know maybe you
should just take a vacation that'll
solve the problem now in my heart I knew
it wasn't a vacation I need any longer
time away so my co-workers thought I was
sort of crazy
my friend
were like what are you doing my family
were like this is insane but you know my
wife was supportive and I knew you know
I knew that I would be okay I knew I was
I could always go get another job and
for me this was something I had to go do
live life in a different way I also knew
working in tech that there's never I
didn't know what I was gonna do but I
knew the technology was out there to be
able to do all kinds of stuff from
anywhere I knew that right and so I
figured you know worst-case scenario is
I have some experience traveling trying
to build a business then go back to a
company that was the worst case and once
I got my head around the worst case it
didn't seem so bad but yeah I mean to
your question people didn't understand
what I was doing
that's very yeah I can I can imagine
that just again externally it looks like
that the perfect job that people would
really really fight for and be envious
of really and then you know you walked
away which is I mean it's it's probably
a good time to walk away on your own
terms versus you know someone else's
terms so okay cool that sounds awesome
now you you resigned you had the
transition plan
what happened next what was your your
plan with your wife well so here's the
thing the truth is I just freaked out
and my year so I didn't know how long it
would be I thought it might be three
months might be sakes
no idea I thought six months tops now to
put in perspective we had just bought a
big house like all this stuff so now
looking back on it I realized oh it was
easy you just deleverage that stuff sell
rent whatever but at the time it felt so
heavy but it was my thinking made it
heavy you know so I ended up I had
bought a new car sold it just bought a
new house and furnished it sold a bunch
of the stuff moved the rest into the
storage and rented the house out when we
rented the house out we rented it for a
year but I thought Oh we'd be gone for
six months we might move back and then
we just rent a condo or an apartment
until the house was free again
and of course nothing went as planned I
mean we ended up being traveling for
almost a year and a half we ended up not
going back to Seattle we decided to live
life not according to our plan but
letting just did
let the plan unfold sure and so we
bought one-way tickets to India I have
family there and my wife hadn't been so
we figured we'll start in India and then
meander through the world not really
knowing what we were gonna do and at
first I had the exhilaration of you know
shiny new object
ooh travel I get to get some new travel
gear and all this stuff and then travel
and after a few weeks it turned into the
terror of constantly thinking about
what's next and in my journey it took me
a good eight months to really calm down
settle down and enjoy the journey and
for me my biggest lesson in all of this
even now is learning to live life fully
and not just according to my own plan
and and that was a really important
transition for me it took me a while to
do it there's nothing like travel
particularly in you know Asia try to
throw all your plans out the window so
we just learn to live moment by moment
travel through India and then made our
way through all over and so as a planner
you know you said you try and plan plan
out very detailed the one-way ticket how
I mean I'm just that would freak me out
how did you deal with that I mean I
guess it took you eight months you said
but like what else was going on in your
mind there well what was going on in my
mind is well at first it was exciting it
was exciting to think hey so again you
know my my old mindset was I could turn
anything into a project
yeah and that gave me structure and
control so at first it was the project
of deleveraging all our a lot of our
belongings and possessions then it was
the project of figuring out how do you
handle the finances and budgeting and
sort of planning so it's very much in
the planning mode and then even the one
way take it let me get
best price right and then planning where
do we go in India like so I was very
much planning but it very quickly became
especially during the travel I couldn't
plan everything I mean we when I wasn't
with family in India we were travelling
more like backpackers so even though we
had savings we wanted to get a really
raw real experience as we moved from
India into Thailand and Malaysia we were
staying in youth hostels we were
figuring out where would sleep that
morning we were buying plane tickets the
day before right and so I in a way it
forced me to really be present you know
it's it's cliche but it's true like
really be present see what's available
and see what opportunities open up and
we would oftentimes meet someone in a
youth hostel who would say hey you
should go check out this city and that
would be our plan guys so we were very
much fluid and it was a process of
learning how to how to let go and live
life in in a different way
but it was it was really hard for me for
my wife she was on cloud nine because
this is hurting she's naturally like
this for me it was a good lesson of
letting go and I actually wrote a blog
post about it which is why I I know it
was eight months because I actually went
back and I was reading and I wrote in my
post hey it's been eight months to
finally let go and decompress and that I
mean that's it's pretty cool that you
were able to do it I know like it's a
process but like the convenience of
Technology and being able to book an
Airbnb and like the different stuff that
we have available like you have the
ability to plan it out so far and
detailed you don't have the
serendipitous things that can happen
like that where someone just tells you
hey check out this city you guys would
probably smell like it so that that's
cool you were able to make it happen
yeah the human context I mean we were in
Thailand we met someone in Chiang Mai
who told us how cool Adelaide Australia
was and also told us there was a new
flight believe it or not from Chiang Mai
to Adelaide who'd have guessed and we
were wondering where to go next and
we're like let's go to Adelaide so that
was our trip we ended up going to
Australia and then moving instead of
doing the rest of Southeast Asia we
ended up
to Australian doing Australia New
Zealand Tasmania like it just led us in
a different direction because of a
conversation we had with someone that
really struck us isn't interesting and
so I think it for me it put me in the
mindset of knowing that you know results
aren't always up to me and that planning
is really really important and you know
maybe even in your business you've
witnessed this where part of planning is
doing the planning then letting go and
doing the work and then things happen
sometimes because you did work sometimes
because randomly someone shows up or you
meet someone on the bus or the train and
then business moves in that direction in
the same way we serendipitously met at a
conference randomly and here we are
talking and so for me that's been my
biggest growth area during this travel
period you were it sounds like you guys
weren't working at all you weren't
trying to like start your business at
that point right intentionally no we did
not want to something here's the thing
two of the biggest things we would meet
people or when we came back we
road-tripped the United States for gosh
six months nine months long time camping
hiking and farakhan people say oh that's
nice but I don't have time I don't have
money Oh must be nice that was a common
thing and look yes it was nice we have
we were able to do this but we were
amazed at yes it took money but also
many times it didn't take a lot of money
and I think if people think creatively
they can take time out and travel and do
it differently now we had saved right so
for most of our both our lives we lived
frugally until those final few years
where I just sort of super-sized my
lifestyle but that was just a couple
years and for a decade before then I
would save thirty to fifty percent of my
income every year I mean I was just I
was really into saving nice and it
happened to be that all my interests
were pretty cheap things hiking in the
mountains practicing yoga I mean it
didn't take a lot of money to do that
stuff right so so we had a cushion where
we could live you know and and travel
and make it work
make it work some places were expensive
like Australia some places were really
cheap like Thailand where we lived 20 20
dollars per person per day for 3 or 3-4
weeks yeah amazing yeah and I was just
thinking my wife and I did some travel
mainly in the US but we we did it sort
of on the expensive side going to
expensive cities but we were definitely
splurging just in general but you
certainly can again I like hiking being
outside like a lot of free stuff that
you can do and it's just like getting to
the place and then after that I mean I
don't have to eat an expensive
restaurant or anything like that I like
cooking for myself yeah we spent five
weeks camping in southern Utah so
southern Utah has five national parks
people all over the world come to
southern Utah to go to Zion Bryce Canyon
Canyon Canyonlands arches yeah we spent
five weeks camping mostly for free on
government land
we had our cooler we had our camping
stove we had our two dogs with us we
were traveling with so we just we made
it work but we did not we did not start
business start a business sure until we
realized there is such a thing as too
much travel yeah can you can you tell me
how that like came about and then yeah
let's go that route well so we had just
over over a year into our travel it was
winter and we ended up we had two dogs
with us when we were overseas we had
someone watching our dogs and then they
were with us
we ended up renting a tiny house you
know one of those 200 square foot tiny
houses in the interior of British
Columbia in the middle of winter and
we're like alright our travel we're
losing steam yeah we don't know where
next is we don't know where we're gonna
move to but we both love Nordic skiing
and this place has tons of it so we
found this place on Airbnb pretty cheap
they accepted dogs so we're there for
two months and there's nothing like
being cooped up in a 200 square foot
shed with two dogs two humans in the
dead of winter to really help figure
things out because there was no
distraction I mean we didn't they had
they had wired it up for a Wi-Fi somehow
but we just spent a lot of time thinking
and asking ourself a question which is
what's the kind of life we want to live
which i think is a powerful question for
anyone whether you're a corporate exec
or you're starting your business what is
the life I want to live of which careers
an important piece but a great career in
in a miserable life is not success
that's failure in in my book so let's
decide my wife and I decided what would
a great life really look like and then
what would a great career look like
within that and it led us down the road
of also realizing we both care about
freedom we both care about contribution
to others it was what led me to leave my
my corporate job is you know I loved the
people I was there because I worked with
amazing amazing smart talented people
the products are fine but the truth is I
really was hungry to make a direct
impact on people's lives in a way that
had more meaning to me yeah and that's
what led me to leave that job so we both
wanted freedom we both wanted to
contribute to the world and we both love
to learn and grow and we asked ourselves
what would it look like to design
careers around that and you know so that
sort of started that's actually where I
started my blog and where I made the
decision that what I've loved the most
was not so much building the products
but building the people working with
engineering teams working with marketing
teams right and I had worked with
coaches and that's what led me down the
path to be a coach not thinking it would
be my job but it would be a transition
as I got a job on another company gotcha
so in the tiny house the middle of
British Columbia is when I decided I'm
gonna be a coach I'm gonna do the
training right I'm gonna go down the
path as if I am a professional and I
want to be pro which means I'm gonna
find great master coaches to train with
and I'm gonna go down that
not knowing if it's gonna be my job then
I go down the path and then I'll figure
the rest out and I ended up actually
enrolling in an executive coach training
working with a coach getting a couple
clients through my network from the tiny
house the middle of British Columbia so
I was coaching executives I was coaching
two three I was coaching two executives
and one was more junior level and person
from this tiny house like with feet of
snow outside horses wandering outside my
window and I'm there on a Wi-Fi con
Skype coaching and I realized okay this
is this is really cool
not that I wanted to be traveling the
world while I worked I I'm the kind of
person who wanted a home base but I
realized I could make this work I can
help people from anywhere doing
something I I enjoy okay let me move in
that direction and that's what I've been
doing for the past three years wow it's
funny that the tiny house stuff that is
a lot of hubbub bigger your dogs well so
we won passed away he was 15 he was a 90
pound husky lab makes huge the other is
a 50 pound Corgi lab but they're super
active dogs sure you know it's yeah I
mean we can go on this I can give this
rant on tiny houses they're amazing but
there is a bit of a mystique people have
around you know van life and tiny house
life and look in our travels we spend
over a month well no well nine almost
nine months living out of our Subaru Wow
we traveled in a camper van for a month
all over New Zealand and we lived in a
tiny house for two months and I can tell
you they're neat but I wouldn't want it
to be my life it's great great for a
vacation good story yeah yeah I think
depending on who you may be if you're
single and just want to travel I could
work but I like having heat in the dead
of winter no kidding that's yeah that's
pretty funny that is a crowded space 200
square feet so okay now I have a feeling
I know what you're gonna say for this
next quest
but location-independent or a digital
nomad so I had a you know little
discussion with some other folks that I
interviewed so which term do you prefer
actually I'll leave it at that which
cheer location location independent sure
I think it's better digital nomad I mean
I just kept it I had this visual of like
these sand people from Star Wars turning
around in the desert you know for me I'm
happiest when I'm able to contribute and
help people so for me you know that's
where I'm happiest where I feel I can
contribute and I can contribute from
anywhere location-independent seems to
fit that digital nomad I don't know I
guess the terminology sort of conjures
this person who is wandering but isn't
contributing it's more right you know so
location-independent
it's all it's all a branding thing I
mean I don't yeah remember the first
time I heard it but you know if you
create the term digital Nomad well you
own that space then so whoever Ferris
liked his lifestyle to vote design sure
which you know I I read the 4-hour
workweek when it first came out and I'm
like oh this is great but that's not
that's for other people not me and I was
in the middle of climbing the corporate
ladder and then many years later I now
look back I'm like no that was actually
spot-on
it's like we should design our life
knowing that it's not all up to us I
couldn't have told you three years ago I
would be a full-time coach now I would
have told you oh I got my coaching
certification but I'm now either I've
started my own tech company or I'm
working at a tech company that's what I
would have told you but my life is
totally different so but it's all good
nice and I think I like the location
independent you know term as well I
think for me and I think for you based
on what you said you kind of need to
have a workspace like we're both sitting
at our home offices and it's come I mean
I'd like to not have the bed behind me
but whatever it's it's there the guest I
love to nap I wish i bringing a couch in
here okay it's on order like I kid you
not it's a sofa it's like a sofa couch
thing yeah just cuz I love to nap but
anyway yeah
the digital nomads I think perhaps it
has its place for someone who is you
know for me it would have to be like two
months of travel I'm not gonna be doing
any like business growth but I would
probably just be like maintaining or
whatever no plans of that in the near
future by the way but yeah I think
location-independent is more like it's
like a mature more mature you and I
probably not want to be running around
like traveling and living in tiny homes
Oh so as we are moving on with the
digital nomads location-independent idea
what surprised you about being location
independent or the lifestyle in general
I I give a talk I first moved to Denver
and I think via Twitter well they had a
conference here so they had a conference
and they were asking for speakers and I
just submitted a session and ended up
being the highest voted session so I got
an email saying hey you're speaking and
this is like a month after moving to
Colorado deciding this was going to be
home based so it was like a full
auditorium with 500 people in Denver and
there was a few hours of talks right and
my topic was around why you should quit
your job to travel the world and of
course you know controversial people
saying oh no must be nice for you I
could never do that all that stuff so I
wrote that and it got a lot of like
people liked it and I got I wrote a blog
post about it and I got comments and all
that stuff but then I realized you know
maybe that isn't the best message
because there's a lot of people who
shouldn't so I then wrote an article why
you shouldn't quit your job to travel
the world because I think there are two
sides to this story yeah and so for me
you know
look travel is fantastic but there is
such a thing as too much travel you know
laptop lifestyle I have tried to sit on
the beach with my laptop it's not pretty
it's actually the screen there's sad
it's like your my tie spills all over
your stuff and for me I'm happiest when
I have great people around when I have a
community around when I'm able to
contribute and it's not just about me
when I'm able to work with people and
make connections through a mastermind or
whatever and yes I can do all those
things remotely absolutely but I'll tell
you you know the past weekend's we've
had Thanksgiving and last week we also
had a bunch of friends over
you know it's just nice having friends
over for dinner or having a drink saying
hello to your neighbors I mean it's so
for me I realized that there's a
difference between being able to work
from everywhere and anywhere and
actually having to work from everywhere
and anywhere and big big difference and
so now I travel to Seattle to visit
clients periodically I'll go to the Bay
Area we'll go to my wife's family of
visit her family in Minnesota and I can
work anywhere I don't worry about it
I just hop on a Skype call it's easy
cool but I don't have to and that's
what's nice that I'm gonna steal that
from you that was so well said awesome
go for it it's not yeah I mean that
that's having the option right we don't
you don't have to take advantage of it
every time but you have the option of
working wherever you need to work so
when you were first getting started with
it I guess the the coaching you realized
you wanted to do the coaching stuff was
there anyone that you were looking up to
maybe there were a couple years ahead of
you that you were like I'm gonna emulate
that really hard so here look here's the
thing I started so I started actually
trying to do a niche site I started
doing my coaching and then I thought
well this isn't gonna be my forever job
so let me start a niche site on personal
development so I actually got a domain
which I still have called motivated life
and I was like oh I'm gonna start a site
on personal development targeting people
who want to improve corporate
performance and live a better life right
so I was like this brought it was too
broad first of all right and I've but I
wrote like 20 articles from the tiny
house I was writing a bunch of articles
and trying to get traffic and stuff and
then realized well okay this is
distracting me from the one thing I
really care about which is helping
people and my brain was from my
corporate job trained to build systems
and automate build a system that can
scale and automate it right that's what
software does but I realized there's a
problem with that because when you
automate for the sake of ease of use
efficiency scale you don't necessarily
get all the learning that
would get by doing things the
old-fashioned way and so for me I
decided look let me push all these other
side projects away not do my blog and
just be a great coach connect with
people one on one
don't go build a course or group
coaching program until I know I can get
results working with people one on one
and then slowly build and so when I made
that decision things got easier I had
more fun and I actually was able to get
some clients where I felt like there was
income coming in where I was no longer
worried about feeling like I had to get
a job I had a longer runway and so that
was a critical thing decision point
there now to your point on who to
emulate the coaching world is the wild
wild west and there are coaches out
there I mean pick a number you want to
pay a hundred grand a year their coaches
charging that you want to pay twenty
grand a month charge is charging I mean
there's all kinds of coaches who are not
people I would want to emulate now there
are many coaches who are fantastic but
there weren't many who did it the way I
wanted to do it and most coaches out
there also make a distinction
most people who coach are consulting in
the sense they're teaching a skill so
someone might hire a coach to learn
leadership or learn how to manage their
time and what the coach does is just
teach a process and say Doug here are 17
steps to be more productive doubling
your productivity sure a teach a
methodology and they tell you replicate
this and get results I coach in a
different way you know
I view it as people really do have more
ideas answers resources and skills than
they think and what they're hiring me to
do is help unlock what's inside of them
not to hear me say here's the 17 things
you should do
that's what pure coaching is and so my
struggle was that was actually
connecting with people I did eventually
find those coaches though through my
training program that I went through and
through other graduates of that training
okay I connected and I saw that okay
this is how to do it and then when we
moved to Colorado I made the most
important decision I could have made
which is ironic because I had worked
with coaches before about my first six
to nine months of coaching I didn't hire
a coach so and I was I got early success
and that it was crickets I I got a whole
bunch of clients then it tabled off even
in my coach and I felt like I was
putting in way too much energy but it's
when I finally hired my own executive
coach for me right that things really
took another level and that's and I met
my coach in Boulder Colorado randomly I
went to a technology event they had a
panel of speakers and he was sitting on
the panel and I asked a question to him
I have a question about branding or
something and I stood up there was an
audience about 300 people
I stood up with the mic and for 10
minutes he was coaching me I mean it was
it was a it was unbelievable because it
was a panel and I thought he would just
give me some tips he didn't give me a
single answer
he actually coached me he asked me
questions like what do you believe you
do really well what what do you do that
no one else can do what would you do if
you knew you couldn't fail I mean some
of these are corny but he was coaching
me and we were having a conversation and
so I put down the mic and I thought okay
this guy why was Andrew I need to talk
to him so he ended up hiring him and
we've worked together for several years
now Wow so that's a long-winded answer
but for me the pivot point was you know
doing the training focusing pushing
aside the distraction committing to
being the best coach and then eventually
hiring a coach very good yeah
interesting very interesting and that's
cool how you how you met him - pretty
amazing so looking a little bit more
into your business can I ask you do you
have multiple streams of income work
for yourself right now or so look I'm a
work in progress I'm growing so my
growing edge I like to think about it's
like a horizon and I'm growing on
certain edges of it my growing edge is
to move beyond one-on-one coaching so I
started working one-on-one it's high
friction but also that's where I know if
people get results if I'm on a call with
a client a couple times a month every
week you know if they're not getting
results then I need to look at myself
and ask myself okay how can I help them
and it's the best way to improve so I've
built my practice as a one-on-one
practice no I don't trade time for money
in the sense I don't charge per session
I work with clients who commit to a
six-month process to create something
really big in their life in business or
career and over six months we make it
happen and I don't know how it's gonna
happen but it does and we bushes show up
and we move and results happen so that's
my income stream
I do have an online course and what I
did is I took some of the conversations
that were a bit repetitive particularly
for people who are look looking to get a
new job
sure so they're a technology
professional product manager marketer
engineer and they want to get a job at
Google Microsoft they want to figure out
which job to go for how to apply how to
ace the interview how to negotiate all
that stuff I just created a course using
teachable calm and it walks through
eight steps to you know everything from
resume LinkedIn to negotiation interview
all that stuff and figuring out what's
next right because I asked that question
had myself what's next
so I created a whole module around
figuring out career direction very cool
so that's the other Avenue you know I
haven't sold a ton of it though looking
forward I see my business moving more in
one on one being you know an important
stream courses where there are several
other topics I'm already brainstorming
sure I'll create some courses around but
then next year also group coaching in
the form of a mastermind but I'm really
gonna scope it to a couple specific
groups of people
where it'll be part be teaching and part
coaching so that'll be next year cool
that very exciting very exciting
I know courses are hard I have a course
myself as many people probably know but
when we hear about courses it sounds
like you know the Holy Grail but it's
pretty hard so it like I know what
you're talking about it takes a long
time and obviously we're both high
quality is very important to both of us
and I think like being sure that you're
delivering like the best material like
you honed you know you've been doing
one-on-one coaching for a long time you
know there are certain things that are
tried-and-true
you tested it you know it's a common
question so I totally can relate to you
know the struggles they're sort of
describing in transitioning from one on
one to like reaching more people totally
and and also people learn I've realized
people learn differently you know one on
one is great but sometimes you just you
don't want that sometimes you just want
to consume sometimes you want to hear
other people's conversations like
eavesdrop or just learn through the
group so I've just realized people have
different learning styles but yeah it's
definitely the marketing piece becomes
much more it's different doing a online
course sale versus one-on-one where for
me people find me through my blog or
LinkedIn they apply for a free session
with me and it's a mutual conversation
so if you were interested in coaching
Doug we'd have a half-hour coaching
session and we'd come away with that
either if I know I can help you I will
say so if I don't think I can help you I
will say so indirect you and vice versa
because you want the personality fit to
be there but that's a you know lower
numbers you don't need a 10,000 person
email list you just need to build a
handful of relationships and really
nurture those sure whereas with the
course well I don't know I mean you know
I'm still learning that so yeah so I
want to shift to productivity so it
sounds like you're a highly productive
person it sounds I didn't realize you
you know practice yoga sounds like in a
pretty serious level earlier we talked
that you're a runner also so it sounds
like you do a lot of stuff when you
shifted from
you know your corporate career to
working for yourself did you have any
struggles like how did that go to
actually be productive when you were the
one calling the shots the thing about a
corporate machine is it is a machine and
companies have structures built in some
have better structures than others think
of it as the operating system companies
have operating systems just as humans do
right these are beliefs these are
mindsets habits systems all that stuff
so we've got this stuff that our pattern
and a company has a pattern when I was
part of the corporate system look much
of my week was defined I had a team
which means I met with everyone every
week right so I have one-on-ones I had a
team meeting I was part of three or four
virtual teams
I had my leadership meeting I had
customer visits so it was more of a
puzzle it was like a logic puzzle visit
fitting it all in tuning the system
right so it all fit in and then in the
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