Deep Work - Productivity 3 - DS033 #DougShow #Best Education Page #Online Earning

hello what's going on

it is Doug Huntington and this is the

Doug show in this episode we will be

talking about deep work and this is part

three of the productivity series there

are four parts and the next one will be

on prioritizing just like the other two

episodes in this series my wife and I

are discussing the topic so it makes it

a little bit more interesting to go back

and forth I hope and we also get to hear

a clip from one of my favorite movies in

books The Shining by Stephen King

so that's at the end and don't worry

it's actually it's actually relevant to

the episode in a weird way and kind of

goes to prove that you can relate almost

anything to something else if you try

hard enough and I guess a little

background I can mention around the

shining and maybe one reason why I like

it so much

I remember watching I like scary movies

a reasonable amount and when I was a kid

I was probably like maybe 10 or 12

something like that I saw this shining

for the first time and I don't think I

really understood much of it by the way

at the time but over time I have figured

out a little bit more in one or two cool

things around the shining number one

when Stephen King was inspired to write

the book he stayed at a hotel called the

Stanley in Estes Park Colorado I worked

in Estes Park Colorado

I rather live there I guess while I

worked in the Rocky Mountain National

Park for two summers back in the early

2000s and that is kind of cool because

that's well that was the first time I

was out in Colorado and that town is

only I think it's like an hour from

where we're living now and just in

general that was sort of like my

introduction to

the Rocky Mountains which have now lived

in this zone for a few years so that's

pretty cool the Stanley Hotel is a it's

a pretty nice hotel they've been doing

some upgrades and some cool stuff in the

last couple years but even in the early

2000s it was interesting to go check it

out they have and I think I think it's

like a hundred years old something like

that yeah it was built in like 1907 so

it's a little bit older than that but

the point is it's an old historic hotel

supposedly haunted and Stephen King

stayed at that hotel

I think it was like a couple days or the

week that they were closing up for the

winter I guess this would have been like

in the early to mid 70s or so and he and

his wife stayed there and basically it

was like them and the hotel staff that

was getting it ready to like closed up

for the winter so anyway

very cool like story and then later on

like in the last few years I read The

Shining which is a you know the Stephen

King's books are kind of long at times

but a great book and it's it's

interesting because the movie is pretty

different from the book and they just

have sort of a different path that they

take so I don't want to reveal anything

even though the book and movie have been

out for like you know 40 plus years but

anyway if you're looking into it you

should check it out so I'm just rambling

on and on at this point so I'm just

gonna send it over to the discussion on

deep work

[Music]

we're talking about deep work today and

focusing on stuff

are you a good focuser you say I am I

think you're pretty good at it I think

you've actually said exceptional you

exceed expectations and a four yeah

you're focusing and I think the reason

why I say that is I know that either

when you're working or even if it's on a

project at home where it does require

like you know focus basically it looks

like you're able to focus for a lot

longer than most other people and like

keep distractions out and I think it's

it's gotten harder since we started

working with social media and then

smartphones and the prevalence of email

and all that stuff but I know that you

could focus pretty well just from my

observation thank you how about you what

it will hold on what does deep work mean

what does that mean well really just

focusing on some sort of a complex you

know thing for a while usually it's sort

of a block of time there's a book by a

Cal Newport which is sitting right in

front of us and will reference a lot of

that if you haven't read the book you

should you know pick it up it's very

interesting there's a lot of studies and

data that help you you know I guess

believe the deep work is really

important and so that's sort of our

loose working definition you know

focusing on something that requires

concentration for you know some period

of time okay so I think one thing we can

I guess talk about is multitasking which

is sort of like the opposite of deep

work and I know when I had my corporate

job people talked about multitasking all

the time mainly they just meant they

weren't paying attention to the meeting

we were in or whatever they'd say hey

sorry I was multitasking meaning they

were looking at their email or they were

on another meeting at the same time

which basically meant you had to waste

time and repeat what was already said

and you know usually that person got

distracted from what they were doing and

there's a couple studies that we could

reference and I'll read one out

I thought multitasking was supposed to

be a good thing I think I remember

growing up and people would be like

you've got a multitask like that's how

you're efficient do you remember that I

do remember that in computers multitask

they're really good at multitasking

because you know going back to my

computer engineering days like a

computer is like dealing with zeros and

ones and making like discrete decisions

but we can't do that we're not computers

and computers were able to basically

multi-thread and multitask on different

tasks to be redundant they were able to

multitask and do you know two things at

the same time in between like the clock

cycles so they were like doubling their

throughput because they could process

more than one thing when other data was

processing elsewhere on other chips or

something like that really bad

description but people can't multitask

well and in fact there was a 2009 study

by Sophie Leroy a or Leroy not sure

Sophie Leroy a business professor at the

University of Minnesota and she

demonstrated this switching tasks from A

to B our attention stays attached to the

first activity which means you could

only have focus on the second and that

obviously hurts your performance her

experiments utilizes two groups Group A

worked on a word puzzle and so she

interrupted them to go read resumes and

make a hypothetical hiring decision and

group B got to finish their puzzles

before moving on to the resumes and in

between the tasks Leroy would give a

quick test to see how many keywords from

the puzzles were still stuck in the

participant participants minds and as

you can imagine Group A was much more

focused on the puzzle and therefore less

focused on the task of hiring so the

long and the short of it is that

multitasking isn't good for productivity

especially when it's really important to

be

effective I don't know reviewing resumes

you're just messing with someone's life

right why would you need to focus on

right and you can imagine I mean that

was in a in an experiment and all that

stuff but that was pretty controlled now

we have you know if you have a laptop or

a computer that you're working on and

then you have a phone with like a bunch

of different apps constant distractions

will be coming in even if it's something

fun like we have our dog Georgie on

Instagram and we post pictures and it's

you know it's fun right it's a fun

little distraction Georgie gets to

participate a little bit but basically

we we ended up we ended up with all

these notifications just constantly

bombarding us so I turned off actually

at this point my phone's on Do Not

Disturb 24 hours a day and I only accept

calls or text messages from anyone like

in my favourites

which its family members basically so

I'm really trying to get rid of the

distractions cuz they really bogged me

down yeah I remember I guess we'll get a

little bit more into deep work and and

what it is and how to do it but um I

remember when I first started working I

don't know I think I was surprised at

the hours that some of the executives

kept and how they would stay until 6:30

or 7:00 stay later in the day but as I

progressed in my career I figured out

the secret of that and actually the

reason they stay late is maybe not

because they have too much work to do or

because you know they necessarily want

to but that is the best time of the day

to be productive because everyone else

is gone and they don't have the

distractions of you know their teams and

the meetings and people like bombarding

them all the time and so you know when

you are in one of those cycles of work I

have also often heard you know people I

work with they'll come in on the weekend

and they're like in three hours I was

able to get more work done than I did

all week because they were able to have

that focused time without the

distractions I've ever

thing else yep and I kind of like the

morning period versus the evening

because in the evening you know some

people would work later and could

distract you but in the morning usually

it's like a ghost town now that sort of

stuff has kind of gone away with like

remote working in the time zones sort of

overlap so I know while out like towards

the end of my like corporate gig I ended

up you know the day would start much

earlier because there were you know

other people in other time zones who

were already up and then it would last

longer depending on where you were

located because of that but but yeah

that's a great point in actually reminds

me there was a mentor of mine who he had

he had a really rough stretch he was

working on long projects and ended up

you know working like you know 80 100

hour weeks at least that's what he would

say and Elizabeth you and I have talked

like you really can't work that many

hours in the day you can't have like

really get anything done

he was really spending his time sending

emails and on meetings that he would

just sit on the phone in meetings just

in case like not actually doing anything

productive the point being really you

can only do a few hours of like deep

work you have to do some other like

lower intensity activities email is a

good example so what I were getting kind

of into the tactics a little bit but

we'll break it down more later I mean I

will usually try and do a piece of like

the quote deep work maybe only a couple

of times a week and then later in the

afternoon that's when I'll do email or

at least I'll try my best to save the

sort of activities that don't need a lot

of concentration for later in the day

that way I could just more quickly get

through those and save my brainpower for

for the earlier part of the day all

right so if you're one of those people

out there that thinks you might struggle

with deep work and distractions

how do we do it Doug there are a couple

approaches that Cal Newport talks about

in deep work and we'll talk about those

four but the core of any of them is to

like eliminate distractions and there

are some apps you could put on your

laptop to like turn off internet access

for however long you want I think

there's one called freedom and you could

say you know what ninety minutes of

freedom in internet access turns off

like there's not a way to turn it back

on I think unless yeah you know what I

don't know how to get through it but the

point is it turns off internet access

and then if you're thinking hey what if

I have to do research just take a note

and you could look it up later but the

point is you're disconnected and you

won't get distracted another tactic I

heard from Neil Strauss like in New York

Times bestseller he has his wife turn on

the parental controls on his on his

machine and he doesn't know the password

so he only has internet access at you

know whatever like from 10:00 p.m. to

11:00 p.m. and he was saying he never

answered email so quickly like you you

get through what you have to when you

have like one hour they did it done so

that's a really effective way to

prioritize cuz you only hit the most

important stuff that sounds pretty

extreme it sounds like he can't be

trusted he's gotta be passive like

locked out yeah and yeah he was like I

don't know the password so if there's an

emergency I have to like find my wife to

like unlocked it but I mean that's

that's effective and I can't remember if

it was Neil Strauss also but you know

one thing you could do put your phone on

airplane mode I think I've heard some

people like put it in a box in another

room across the house so it's like super

inconvenient to go over to get it or in

another another spot in your office or

something like that that way like you're

not going to pick up your phone and like

go over to Instagram or Facebook or

Twitter or whatever maybe distracting

you so that's like the core of

of the ideas you have any like sort of

high-level tips before I go over the

four methods here well I don't know I

don't want to step on your toes because

I don't really know the methods but um I

was doing a little research and creating

a plan was a big thing that they said

you know you can't really deep work if

you don't know what you're trying to

accomplish which makes sense having and

like having a specific goal in mind you

got to know what you want to do

yeah those I think that's maybe where

I'm really good I'm good at planning out

my time and I know what I need to get

done you know some would say I'm too

good Doug once said the most annoying

thing about me was my excessive planning

but maybe that is maybe that's why I I

can focus right and I think you know

there's a time and place for all that

planning so maybe when you're on

vacation you want to have a little bit

more spontaneity then we'll save that

for a little and how will you know

you're having as much fun as you

possibly could get a schedule the fun in

there we should be having more fun right

now yeah it's hot you're having the time

of your life and before Doug goes into

the tactics if talking about the problem

with distractions will put this in the

show notes there's a great scene in the

shining which we just watched over the

Halloween season also known as act

October scary movie month for us there's

a great scene in The Shining where Wendy

comes in and just distracts jack while

he's trying to write and it doesn't go

very well and he gives her a nice little

speech about it so alright let's get

into the for ideas that Cal Newport lays

out and deep work again could check out

the book if you want to get like all the

the details behind it the first one he

talks about is the monastic monastic

approach here and that is like a monk

you could imagine so you eliminate all

distractions and you just kind of buckle

down again like Elizabeth said for all

of these you you need to know what

you're working on you can't just

like eliminate all distractions and then

try and do any of these and you're still

gonna have trouble if you don't know

what you're supposed to work on so do

you

we'll go through them all and then we'll

sort of say like what we think we end up

doing so monastic is first the second

one is bimodal so that idea is around

clearly defining like a long period of

time to do the work and then the rest is

generally free and you can sort of like

fill in with those lower intensity

activities that don't require as much

concentration so you can kind of think

of that as you know maybe you do one or

two days a week where you're really

focusing on like deep work and then the

rest of the time is you know less

structured number three is a rhythmic

and that is blocks of times maybe like

90 minutes at a time and then you take a

break for a little while before you go

back to into another 90-minute block of

course 90 minute is arbitrary you could

pick however much time you want the

other portion that's important is to

like track it with a calendar so you

know you're hitting you know whatever

four days a week where you're doing

these blocks for you know four hours a

day or something like that to give you

three hours of work last number four is

the journalistic approach and this one

is like a like a reporter right a

journalist they are on like tight time

constraints they work whenever they they

can and I've heard I don't know if this

is true but like reporters and anyone

working at a newspaper you don't get

writer's block because you have to write

to get it to your editor so that you can

publish on a deadline so they're just

used to having like being able to

produce and that's that's the word right

they don't they don't really get

writer's block because they don't have

time to procrastinate so those are the

four what approach do you think you have

I am the third what was that again

rhythmic yes I'm a rhythmic deep worker

because I find it to be kind of draining

like if you actually really are focusing

and concentrating on a task and giving

it your full attention I I get up and

take breaks so I definitely think you

know I'll plan out my day and I'll be

like all right I'm gonna you know try to

get this done by 10:15 and then I'm

gonna take a break and take a little

walk clear my head come back maybe do

some lower-level tasks and then like set

up the next the next round of you know

review or whatever I need to do for

later that afternoon monastic I mean I

think the reason that's called monastic

like only the monks can do that so right

I mean how can you live all the time

your whole life without any distractions

but that kind of is unrealistic I think

for most people I think you would have

to do it for periods of time so maybe

you could do it for two weeks and really

get something done and I mean for

example Cal Newport he's not on social

media he's like a CS Georgetown he's a

CS professor at Georgetown and you would

think he'd be like high tech and like on

social media a bunch but he is not on

social media he got rid of it a while

ago and he gives a couple sort of

extreme examples in the book of people

who they don't have email like they're

like I'm not gonna do email and if you

want to get in touch with me find

another way and there's some there's

some ways to do it but I mean one of

them is a college professor like can you

imagine like at this point in time not

having an email and you're a college

professor I mean that seems crazy

yeah that's pretty odd I actually that

reminds me one of the ladies I worked

with you know over a decade ago she just

was like I don't do email and this was

like an executive and I it was weird

back then but she's like I don't I don't

answer my emails I don't do email if you

want to if you need something from me

fine find another way to get in touch

with me

interesting yeah so I think for me I'm

somewhere I can't focus as well as

Elizabeth I'm not as disciplined and

stuff especially now that I'm working

for myself I tend to be more scattered

there's a lot more distractions but I

think I fall between the bimodal and the

rhythmic is what it's called so if I if

I could do a better job it would

probably be closer to the bimodal so I

can get save for hours of something that

I really have to concentrate on

sometimes it may take me you know 20 or

30 or 40 minutes to get in the right

mindset to say right something like it

may take me just a little while to fire

on all cylinders depending on what it is

I think other times I have to do the

rhythmic approach where like I need to

focus for a bit I have to take a break

and then maybe I have to do some of the

low intensity activities depending on

what's going on in my workday so so I

think ideally I would love to do the

monastic approach and I think if I've

had a big piece of work like that is

what I do I like remove distractions

maybe for a few days and I think for me

and sometimes it may take like 20 or 30

minutes to get in the right mode but if

I could I can make it stick around for a

few days if I'm say writing something

really long like an 80 page like book or

something like that I can really get a

lot done like day over day so the

monastic approach is really good now Sam

what's interesting is I think I might

have pegged you as more journalistic I

think you tend to really pump it into

gear when you've got a deadline like

right in front of you you know what I

didn't even think of that I was thinking

like more ideally but you're right when

I do have a deadline I can sit and work

for 12 hours straight yeah that's that's

true I forgotten I think probably

wouldn't you say most people are

combination of all of those most likely

I think the

four things the four methods here are

without any constraints like they're

just approaches but the reality is

everyone has constraints so one of the

exercises or examples in the book is

around time blocking where basically you

schedule your day in 30 minute blocks

and you it's gonna be real messy at

first because most people especially me

underestimate how much time it takes to

do things and your schedule will change

things will happen that you can't

control so probably every day some thing

is going to change so there's a few

pieces that make it hard to do but if

you can stick with it

a few things will happen so I'm really

bad at estimating how long it takes to

do things and I like when you write it

down and you're like okay I need to move

on to the next thing and you realize

you're only a quarter of the way done

then you have to figure out how to

estimate better so you'll get better at

estimating how long things take the

other thing is you'll realize because of

that you should probably just leave like

gap in your schedule so schedule a

certain amount of time leave some gap in

there and if you finish something early

what you can do those sort of

lower-level activities admin tasks

you know bookkeeping sending emails

whatever if you finish early you could

just move on to something else or take a

break which is good in fact in the book

it talks about being bored and like

being able to work through ideas because

you're bored because you're not

constantly thinking trying to solve

something so I saw that as well in my

research and I liked that tip I also

liked it was said something like

scheduling time to think and I when I

have had difficult problems that I'm

working over that is something that I

actually do well I literally will just

go like sit outside somewhere and think

or I think the example I found was take

a walk and let your mind you know mull

over that problem and so you know in

this day and age maybe sometimes when we

think about like

pork you're sitting in front of a

computer either writing or you know

analyzing the spreadsheet or doing

something like that sometimes just

thinking is actually the work yep and

you gotta let your brain have time to

solve those problems especially I mean

if it was an obvious solution you

probably would have thought of it

already so you'll have to sort of mull

over it and stuff and the other thing

with the scheduling and the fact that

you know if your time blocking your day

and 30 minute increments like it's gonna

change so you just have to deal with it

and it's not a waste of time to schedule

the time blocks it's just if something

changes if someone is unavailable to

meet when they said then you'll probably

just need to shuffle things around in

the way that Cal Newport does it in the

book basically you get a sheet of paper

you put your initial schedule on the

left side and then if something changes

you could just reschedule it on the

right side so you just have to deal with

it and it's like I said not a waste of

time to schedule it it's just going

through the exercise helps you in

various ways and helps you I get the

work done so something else I found when

I was researching about this time

blocking I don't know what I thought

about this but they called it the 20%

less rule does he talk about that not

that I recall so it's it's like if you

think you're gonna need an hour to do

something scheduled 20% less time so

schedule 48 minutes um that was some

quick math in my head there I believe

it's correct but schedule 20% less and

then that will like kick you into deep

work and working harder because you know

you thought it was gonna take an hour

but you're only giving yourself 48

minutes I don't know how I felt about

that right I like the idea of it's like

Parkinson's law or something like that

where you're like the work will expand

to the amount of time or contract to the

amount of time that you have but if

you're like me and you like chronically

underestimate stuff

well then my whole schedule would be

because then I would

underestimate it and then I wouldn't

have enough time

liked it said adding a sense of urgency

to the task is like doing interval

training for your mind nice

interval training for the by yes I don't

know is a new concept to me but I

thought that was like maybe once you

feel better about your estimating sort

of like that horrible product I told you

about for the shower this is the worst

product ever so it's like a timer for

your shower and it starts out at like 10

minutes and then slowly like you so you

get out of the shower when the light

turns red or something like that and

then slowly over time it'll cut like 15

seconds off your shower and so you know

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