Flipping Houses, Financial Independence, and Podcasting with Mindy Jensen of Bigger Pockets #Best Education Page #Online Earning

in this interview I talked to Mindy

Jensen of the BiggerPockets Money

podcast

she's also the community manager over at

bigger pockets and we talked about her

her background in general so we hear

about real estate investing live in

flips financial independence we talk

about Carl a little bit her husband

I interviewed Carl a couple weeks ago so

if you dig this video if you dig this

interview you may want to check out the

interview with Carl jimson mr. 1,500 as

well we get into the weeds in a lot of

cases and it's a long sort of winding

conversation with a few tangents thrown

in there as well so if you're brand new

to the channel I encourage you to check

out some of the other financial

independence topics because if you like

this video those are the ones you want

to check out I usually talk about Amazon

affiliate marketing in SEO and side

hustles and that sort of thing but I'm

starting to talk and interview a lot

more people in the financial

independence and personal finance area

so if I didn't mention it before my name

is Doug Huntington and I blog over at a

niche site project without further ado

let's get to the interview with Mindy

Jensen let's get into the meat of what

what we're doing here today so

technically you're financially

independent right like you and Carl

I wouldn't say technically I would say

we are financially independent well you

know what technically is a good way to

say that I will take that back and agree

with you because I do have a job which

is not allowed according to the internet

retirement police but I don't care what

they say I'm gonna have my job because I

really like my job and we have enough

money based on the 4% rule we have

enough money to never have to work again

and then Carl was kind of leery about

quitting his job so he stayed on until

we doubled it and then he's like okay

I'm gonna leave or maybe maybe it was

before then but yeah he we definitely

have to ex what we think we need for the

4% rule and I have a job and my job

provides health insurance and a salary

that we can live off of

and continue to save I max out my 401k

every year I max out my HSA every year

so I don't need to touch that right now

but if I quit tomorrow we have enough

that neither one of us has to work again

your answer was so like rich with like

jargon and stuff

that I know maybe a year ago I wouldn't

have followed like much of what you said

but it's interesting that this whole

like subculture of Phi and it's pretty

cool because there's like again just

vocabulary and definitions that other

people don't know about so for the

people that don't know like what's the

quick definition of the 4% rule so the

4% rule is based on a study done by

William bankin I don't know in the 80s I

think he looked at all of the past stock

market data and he said based on past

performance and past performance is not

indicative of future games based on past

stock market performance if you save X

amount of money and withdraw 4% in the

first year and then readjust for

inflation every year you should be able

to retire for or live off your your

savings your investments for 30 years

and have at least not run out of money

for 30 years with I think a 96% chance

of success

so basically if you take the inverse of

that 25 times your annual spending is

what you need to have in investments in

order to be financially free so our

number just like most people we spend

about $40,000 a year

so 40 times 25 is a million dollars we

had a million dollars we got to our carl

calls at the double comma Club we got to

have a double comma Club and then we

essentially doubled that with you know

the crazy stock market that we've had

right now so that is what the 4% rule is

if you can live off of 4% of your

investments as an annual spending you

should be good to go perfect very

concise definition yeah that's pretty

good yeah way to describe my country

and when you guys were first like

thinking about retiring and you were

running the math because I know a lot of

people like I've mentioned exactly what

you said and they're like a million

dollars holy crap that's a lot of money

how could we possibly do that

so when you were first looking at the

numbers did you think it was close like

how did you feel personally so Carl and

I are both super frugal some people

pronounce that cheap and we just always

saved we didn't really know what we were

saving for but saving is just something

that you do you don't spend every dime

that comes in you invest it in the stock

market and and in real estate real

estate is my love and the stock market

is his true love he invested in the

stock market he was a tech guy and he

was fascinated in the you know the early

2000s he was fascinated by all of these

Internet companies that are coming out

Facebook was this thing and Google he

was working on a project he's a computer

programmer it was having a problem and

he was like oh man does anybody know how

to fix this and it one of his friends

said oh google it he's like what is that

and it's kind of hard to imagine now

there was a time where people didn't

know what Google meant so he looked it

up and there was the exact thing he had

to do he said oh my god this thing this

this Google is unbelievable and they

announced that they were going public so

they were doing this Dutch auction you

can look it up I don't know all the ins

and outs of that but basically everybody

says oh well pay this much for it I'll

pay that much for it and the highest

price that the most amount of people

were willing to pay is what they went

with I think was like eighty five

dollars a share or something and my

thought was wow eighty five dollars a

share that's a lot of money for a stock

but now it's worth what a thousand

dollars a share or something I don't

know and how many times did it split

could I'm not sure cuz that's his

wheelhouse he does all the stock stuff

but it has he's called it a twenty

bagger which means that it is 20 times

more valuable than when we bought it and

we bought Facebook at the IPO we bought

you know all these things

the Apple at like 20 dollars or

something Tesla $20 I don't know if

you've been watching Tesla just go crazy

so he bought all these socks and just

kind of set them set it and forget it

buy it and then just don't look at them

anymore

and of course now we recommend that you

and MSM index funds but that Weatherly

wasn't like a big thing then so we were

just investing in things that he felt

comfortable investing in this Google is

amazing this Facebook who do you know

that isn't on Facebook I met one lady

last night at a meet-up who isn't on

Facebook literally everybody else I know

at least has an account if they are not

on it every single day

he would invest in that and we had

approximately 580 thousand dollars just

in various investments when he

discovered financial independence so

that was the end of 2012 beginning of

2013 and at that point the market

started going crazy and so we had a

really good leg up but it was I don't

want to say it was all this money that

we weren't using because you're never

not using money you're doing something

with it but it was this money that we

had just we didn't need to live so we

had invested it and then it just went

crazy and when we hit the double comma

Club it was like the week before his

40th birthday and he was so excited

about that and now I can't remember what

the question was if you asked me it was

what did you have for breakfast we ended

up here so okay so basically a million

sounds like a lot but because you guys

were in you're basically like mid to

late 30s you guys saved pretty well you

weren't going crazy

as far as spending and you were

generally living within your means for

20 plus years yes well I would say we

were living well below our means Carl

had a really well-paying job I quit work

to raise our two kids and that was

always the plan

I didn't leave some massive career I

left a job that was interesting but not

amazing I stayed home with the girls and

then he continued to make really good

money as a software programmer and

just I don't know that we could spend

what he was making like that's just not

our makeup we don't we don't have

brand-new clothes we don't have the

latest phones or you know get computers

every time they upgrade or anything like

that and the whole kids are really

expensive

there's expensive as you want them to be

you know I I'm very very blessed that I

have healthy kids we go to the doctor

for their one-year checkups like are

their annual checkups and that's kind of

the only time we go to the doctor so I

do realize that that I'm very lucky in

that way but we just don't spend a lot

of money I don't care about cars and

clothes and you know if you look at me

and think wow that's not a very cool

outfit I don't care it covers the bits

that it needs to cover and that's really

all I need so we were probably living on

I mean we never really did the math but

we were probably living on 40% of his

salary okay and it's amazing too because

I didn't by the way if people want to

follow along the journey like go back in

time Karl documented on his blog fifteen

hundred days so he like tracked it along

the way before you were retired so

before he left his corporate job to be

more specific okay so that that's really

good to know and the interesting thing

is I was just reading Karl's blog

because it's a good blog and he was like

we didn't track our expenses as well as

we thought maybe that's why he stuck

with the job for a little longer but I

think that's probably one of the most

important parts I think is I think it's

kind of hard to track so like how did

you guys approach it back then and do

you have a better handle on like the

exact spending of my house now or is it

just because of the way you live your

your lives you don't need to like keep a

strict budget like every time you go to

the grocery store for example so yes to

all of that we started tracking probably

in 2013 with a notebook it was a

notebook opened up to the same sheet

right on the countertop as I walked in

the house and it had date store category

and dollar amount and then I think there

was like a running total or something

and when I would go to the grocery store

I would write it down

on 2:15 I went to King Soopers and I

spent thirty seven dollars and twelve

cents and on groceries and what I

noticed right away after that first

month was I went to the grocery store

every single day because we lived we

lived over here and the gym was here and

in between here in the gym were like

seven grocery stores and oh I just need

that one thing have you ever gone into

the grocery store and just gotten that

one thing no I always stop by the

damaged bin

you know what's over here what's the

dented can today oh I don't need pickled

pig's feet or yeah I can use black beans

or you know whatever so I would go in

for one thing and come out with ten

which isn't a big deal once a week or

once a month but every single day all of

a sudden I have all this stuff that I

don't really need and that was the most

eye-opening of tracking spending is just

I need to stop going to the grocery

store every day so I really tried to

plan out our meals and not so much

budget as just like oh this is on sale

today I was gonna have beef but now I'll

have chicken because it's cheaper so I

tried to plan out meals and know what I

had in the counters or in the cabinet so

I could start clearing those out that

was literally the biggest thing for us

was just stop going to the grocery store

every single day and tracking your

spending because once you you know you

track it for the first month with no

shame and no guilt and you just where

are you spending your money you start

tracking it and you're like oh my

goodness I can't believe I go to

Starbucks seven times a day or I go out

to dinner you know every Friday and

Saturday night I know I do it but I

don't really pay attention to it and now

I can start seeing oh I don't need this

and my values aren't what I'm spending

my money on so I'm gonna stop going to

the grocery store every day I'm gonna

make it a point of only going on Mondays

cuz I need Saturdays as a disaster but

like I'm only gonna go on Mondays and

then on Tuesday if I need something I'm

gonna have to make do or I'm gonna have

to make something else and we started

making it into a game how little can I

spend oh I'm not gonna go to the grocery

store

all this week I've got milk and I've got

fresh fruit and I don't need anything

else so I'm gonna see can I can I make

it you know ten days without the grocery

store can I make it two weeks without

the grocery store and I'm not up to once

a month shopping yet but we're doing a

lot better and I'm actually I'm actually

back down to going in more frequently

but buying less being very conscious of

what I'm buying at the grocery store and

I don't even walk past the discount bin

anymore because that's like a trigger

that's a spending trigger

we now have a thing on our phones it's a

little app it's a what is it a Google

form that is our budget the waffles on

Wednesday group or couple I guess

they're not a group it's a couple they

wrote an article about how to track your

spending as a mobile spending tracker

you make a questionnaire on Google Forms

and you know it's a custom questionnaire

so you can ask whatever you want and

then when you enter it into your phone

it sends it to a spreadsheet so I don't

have to remember if I'm stopping at

seven places I don't have to remember

all the things that I went to and how

much I spent I fill it out right there

at the cash register as I'm walking out

to my car and that's been really helpful

to track what we're spending and when

we're spending because it's so easy to

forget an expense Carl did the math I

think we did we spent sixty thousand

dollars last year we took a couple of

vacations I traveled a lot last year so

this year we're gonna aim for forty

thousand dollars or less - how six but

are not including house expenses because

we just bought a new house and we're

getting ready to rehab it gotcha

okay in going back to the sort of

beginning of like tracking the spending

obviously there's apps and there's

different solutions that are technical

you could manage on your phone I think

there's something powerful to write it

down in a notebook for some reason like

I use notebooks and my notes here for

our interview or I wrote them by hand

like I could have typed them out but I

wrote them by hand so do you think

there's anything I guess that was useful

by writing it by hand versus using an

app or just because we could download

you could have down

your credit card or your bank statements

and then like categorize the past and

you wouldn't have had to go through that

month or whatever when you were figuring

out your expenses so hand writing any

thoughts I absolutely think that it's

amazing to handwrite it I had a notebook

and it was sitting on the counter and

the first day of every month was a new

page and the first day of the month you

like oh here's my mortgage payment

here's my electric bill and then you

start watching that list grow and it's

in front of your face mm-hmm the only

downside to the the Google form is that

I don't really see the spreadsheet

unless I go into the computer and look

at it whereas the notebook sitting there

right where I put my keys down even if I

haven't spent anything that day I can

still see that big list of expenses that

I have you know I have money that I have

spent and you know you get towards the

end of the month and you're like ooh

there's that running total I met you

know $1,800 and I really want to keep it

under 2,400 and you know can I do that I

think it's more powerful to do it

handwriting but not everybody wants to

undertake that so I would say that if

you're thinking about tracking your

spending you absolutely should and you

should do it in the way that's the

easiest for you but if writing it down

is is at all possible do that to look at

it every single day so let's sort of

transition into your job okay so how

long have you been working with bigger

pockets and what do you do there I have

worked there for four and a half years I

am the community manager the bigger

pockets calm is a website where we teach

people how to invest in real estate we

have a forum a blog a YouTube channel we

now have three podcasts so I manage the

forums and the community manager of the

forums I write articles for their blog I

make videos for their YouTube channel I

host one of their podcast called

BiggerPockets money where we talk about

the journey to financial independence

cool and funny thing is you're my real

estate agent

so yes

yes I saw your message in like the slack

group for this co-working space and I

was like hey Mindy maybe we could work

together

I didn't Google you I didn't do any

research I didn't know you were married

to Carl I had no clue who you were even

though there was like a huge electronic

paper trail that I could have found and

like learned about you or anything so

just I don't know I'm ignorant and

didn't check or do anything but yeah it

was pretty amazing because I was

chatting with one of my friends and she

was like oh you were in Longmont do you

know mr. 1,500 and I'm like we're tight

yeah like I know him a little bit yeah I

drank a beer with him once so yeah just

super interesting now you don't have to

work and I know you mentioned like right

when we met you were like hey I love my

job I like what I'm doing so what is it

about the that role BiggerPockets II dig

so much I get to talk about real estate

and money all day long which is kind of

my favorite thing I mean you know kids

aside has been aside I love real estate

I have been in love with real estate

since the first time I sold a property I

was renting an apartment like I'm tired

of throwing away my money I'm gonna get

a condo and I bought a condo and I sold

I bought it for forty nine thousand five

hundred dollars and I sold it for

$75,000 four years later because I got

married and he had a house and I didn't

want this condo anymore and I was like

wait I just made $25,000 I'm gonna do

that again

I'm gonna buy because I had bought it it

was very ugly I put in tile floor I

painted the walls and it was nice when I

left and because I couldn't afford

something nice I could afford something

ugly and I can make it nice then I

thought well I'm gonna do that again so

we made his house nice and sold it and

then we bought another ugly house on

purpose and made it nice and sold it and

we've just kind of fallen into this

rhythm of we will buy a house we will

that's very unattractive we will live in

it while we're fixing it up and then

we'll sell it and when we do that we

make

a lot of money and I found this website

my chance where people talk about real

estate and in real life nobody talks

about real estate I'm not gonna tell you

about this amazing deal I just found

because you're gonna steal it from me

because you can't find your own amazing

deals and real estate doesn't have to be

this contentious interaction it can be

helpful I would love to tell you about

rental real estate your you need to

screen your tenants oh I didn't know

that I was just gonna go with my gut

well no let me tell you why and here are

some things you might not know you can

ask or here are some things you cannot

ask and you don't know what you don't

know and I have a lot of stuff that

nobody in real life wants to know about

and I go to this website and people want

to ask me questions and you know they

listen to my answers I when you have

kids you get really used to people not

listening to anything you say

so it's just it's really nice to have

information that other people want and

have a place to share it so that's what

really gets me up in the morning to go

to work every day and I really love

going to work every day yeah I feel a

little guilty sometimes the girls will

be up and fighting and you know giving

Carl a hard time and I'm like see ya I'm

gonna go have a good time at work that's

that's funny and I think it's a minute

like you found a job where you were

obsessed with it anyway and then you

just get to help other people that are

interested and also obsessed how did you

find the gig so I Karl and I have this

blog and we went to a conference called

fincon and I walked into a presentation

I don't know if I read it read the title

wrong or if I walked into the wrong room

but there was very little seating left I

found a seat all the way in the front

all the way tucked into the side and

these two guys get up and start talking

about how to take your blog and move it

to another hosting company like I have

nine readers I don't need this

information so I start to get up to

leave and I look around and it is very

clear that I am the only person who

doesn't know who to these two guys are

so I'm like well I guess I'm gonna sit

here and learn this because there's a

standing-room-only it would be very

disruptive if I got up and left so they

start talking bla bla bla bla bla

real estate I'm like whoa I like real

estate blah blah blah

real estate investing blah blah blah we

have a website where people talk about

real estate investing I'm like wow what

is that I would never think to Google a

real estate question because who's gonna

answer that it's very competitive and

I'm not gonna tell you my secrets

because then you're gonna steal my deals

so it was amazing to me that there was

this thing and I stopped after the

presentation was over and I started

talking to them they like oh yeah it's

this website come check it out and I

hopped on the site

like there is no way this is free I

cannot believe there's all this stuff

I'm not gonna make an account because

they're gonna ask me for my credit card

and they didn't and I I was there for

about six months and finally I'm like I

don't care if they ask me for my credit

card I gotta answer this question so

they didn't ask me for my credit card I

jumped in I started contributing and I

was just like this is the best thing

ever but I had two kids who were or one

little one who was still that's at home

she hadn't gone to school yet and they

posted this job and I thought I am so

angry that they posted this job in May

when she's not starting kindergarten

until August and this is the perfect job

for me they're like we want every single

thing you have like I wish this was I

wish this was available and then

somebody asked how long is the job going

to be open for and they said until we

find the right person I'm like okay I'm

gonna apply then and I applied and we

had a conversation and they act the guy

Josh door Ken actually remembered me

from that conversation outside VidCon a

couple of years before and we had a

great discussion he's like I really want

to hire you and I'm like I really want

you to hire me but I can only work

part-time until August he's like okay so

I found it through chance and you know I

was I would almost do this for free I

mean frankly I would do it for free just

don't ask but I love talking about real

estate I love talking about money I want

to help you succeed in your real estate

adventures there's enough real estate to

go around for everyone so I don't care

that I tell you what's going on because

even if you go and take that deal

there's another deal I can find another

deal I don't need that I'm not gonna be

super happy but you know there's enough

deals to go around yeah interesting so

it started at fincon and what year was

that just 2013 2013 and then a couple

years later and you lurked on the forums

for six months did I catch that right so

you were just reading and you were like

I want an answer but I don't want to

make an account and have them say we're

gonna charge your credit card so that's

so funny

I just lurked for for about six months

and then I finally just said I gotta do

this and I jumped in and I would I would

go in on the mornings and you know check

out questions and oh they need my advice

and then I'd go back a little bit later

like does anybody have any follow-up

questions for me like I was so excited

to find this place and I was a

stay-at-home mom I wasn't really

actively looking to invest in real

estate and grow my portfolio like I am

now it was just a really cool place to

teach people what I already know and I

was just so excited to participate

awesome and you you were in Longmont at

that time and BiggerPockets is based out

of Denver's all right that is correct

okay so would you have been able to do

it if you were located somewhere else

just curious I don't know if it matters

but I would have been I do feel that I

am fairly uniquely qualified to be in

this position Brandon Turner works for

BiggerPockets as well and he was out of

Washington State when he started working

for BiggerPockets he now lives in Hawaii

they had posted in the job we prefer

somebody local but you know that's not a

requirement yep and you were active in

the forums for a little while before you

applied so they knew that you were

knowledgeable and you were about the

community because you were helping out

anyway right

mhm awesome yeah that's pretty cool and

then so how did the podcast come about

because you have something like over a

hundred episodes at this point in time

so how did that the community manager

role turn into podcast host and and even

more because you have a youtube channel

BiggerPockets does so there's many

hundreds of videos out there

yes there there are many hundreds of

figs out there I'm not actually sure

so the podcast came about the

BiggerPockets has a real estate

investing podcast and that's been going

since 2013 and one of the most

frequently asked questions in the forum

says how do I get started investing in

real estate with no money and bad credit

and my answer was always you don't

nobody gives you a house and even if

they give you a house you still have to

pay taxes you have to pay you know

utilities you have to fix up because

nobody's gonna give you a perfect house

so let's fix your situation let's fix

your no money situation let's fix your

bad credit situation and I started

talking to Scott trench who was our

director of operations at the time like

you love money or well like you love

teaching people the proper way to use

money and you know you're really

passionate about this and you're

passionate about real estate too let's

start a podcast about money and he said

oh okay great and we kind of tossed the

idea around a little bit but not that

much and then finally I said we're doing

this he said great let's do what we

recorded an episode at fincon we

recorded a bunch more episodes and then

the week between Christmas and New

Year's I had to figure out all by myself

because everybody was on vacation how do

I upload this to Apple how do I get all

of this stuff done so that we could

launch on January 1st 2018 because that

was a Monday and that's when we wanted

to come out so I learned I'm not a tech

person I learned how to do all of this

in the span of a week just kind of by

trial and error and frankly if I can do

it so yeah because I was wondering I was

like oh you must have because

BiggerPockets is a pretty big company at

this point right so I was like oh you

must have a team behind it but the first

one you figured out how to upload it and

do all the business huh I created the

podcast I didn't edit but I created the

podcast I had somebody else do the

artwork I guess and we had a photo shoot

but yeah I had to upload all that stuff

and and just do as much as I could we do

have Dave probably created the actual

show in

our podcast hosting platform but

everything else I was like I don't know

how to upload this and I guess I'm just

gonna start it and we'll see what

happens and amazing it worked that's

awesome and how often are you asked if

you and Scott are married oh my goodness

all the time and what's really funny is

Scott was born after I graduated high

school but he does not have a baby face

so I don't think people look at him and

think wow he's got to be 50 you know I

think they look at him and think he's in

his 30s but I also think that people

kind of tend to misjudge my age not and

humblebrag there I like how you see so I

was recording I was guest-hosting on the

real estate podcast and I said something

I'm like yeah I'm 21 and somebody

commented okay like I just saw a picture

Betty she is not 21 yeah yeah that's

funny I thought that was funny but yeah

people ask if we're married a lot which

I think is so funny because we work

together I don't know there's a lot of

husband-and-wife podcast teams maybe

your online is a little different then I

don't know yeah I guess I just thought

that was really funny the first time

somebody asked me they're like oh and

and how long have you been Scott you had

Scott been married I'm like stop it yeah

did so you recently went to a podcast

conference right which which one was

that

and did Scott go with you did you get

even more question yeah we went to a

podcast or I went to podcast evolutions

or I'd say podcast movement evolutions

let's get the the name right it was out

in Los Angeles and nobody if Scott

didn't go with me they didn't ask me

where Scott was he's the now the CEO of

the company so he doesn't really attend

these conferences I just wanted to go to

see what I could learn and pretty much I

know nothing about podcasting promotion

SEO like any of that stuff so I learned

a ton and it was

really beneficial if you're thinking

about starting a podcast you need to go

to podcast movement and learn all the

things in the beginning so you're not

playing catch-up two years later what

were the couple big takeaways anything

specific around like there's topics you

just mentioned it's so the best tip that

I got was listen to your podcast I have

an editing team so I don't have to go

back and listen and I was in the

conversation why would I listen to it

but when you listen to your show you

start to pick up oh that's my little

tick I need to stop saying um every

other word or you know oh I tend to

ramble which is kind of my thing so

maybe I need to stop start cutting it

short you know get your thought out and

maybe even write stuff down do a little

more research plan ahead and promote

your show every day be posting on social

media hey here's our episode you should

listen to it here's a little video clip

here's a little audio blurb here's you

know a great quote from the episode so

I'm very very excited to put those into

practice cool and have you gone back to

listen to any episode since then so on

my way into the office tomorrow I will

be listening to our current episode

which is 113 with Bianca Dee Valerio

which is a really great episode because

she is a single woman with no college

degree who works an hourly job and she's

financially independent and I think

there are a lot of people who come to

the financial independence space from a

different part of their life they are a

software engineer so they're making six

figures and they are you know college

educated and maybe they had some college

debt and you know they're in a different

financial place and here's somebody who

didn't start off with any advantages and

still made it to financial independence

before age 40 so I listen to the episode

and watch part of the YouTube interview

as well awesome

really good interview and Bianca's like

yeah great

interviewee yes yes she's just she's one

of my favorite people she's just

fantastic to listen to and her story can

teach you so much

like its she had short sales during the

economic downturn of 2008 she really

didn't have any advantages she thought

she was going to invest in these real

estate properties that would you know

see her through retirement and she'd

lost them and how do you get over that

and you know what you do if you wallow

in it you're gonna just sit there and

not have the best experience but if you

pick yourself up and move forward like

she did you're gonna have success and

she's I mean she's living proof that

anybody can reach financial independence

if they just follow the pretty boring

steps to financial independence spend

less or earn more or start a business

invest properly you know and she's done

a pretty great job of doing all those

things and it seems like they were like

catastrophic mistakes the short sales

that she went through but yeah so bad I

have a foreclosure in my books which is

fine at this point but yeah that's

another conversation so we don't need to

talk about myself but it's it's fine

like after that everything is fine like

it's it was a big decision of like risk

management which Bianca talks about a

lot but really you know foreclosure or

short sale it's just like a blip in time

and then like time kind of erases it as

long as you don't continue to make like

bad mistakes over and over again yeah

and I can't think of anybody who has

just lived a perfect life I've never had

a mistake I've never had a setback

everybody has them and it doesn't have

to define you it can really feel like

I'm sure when Bianca was going through

her short sale when you were going

through your foreclosure that's the only

thing you can think of you can't think

of what you're gonna make for dinner or

what you're gonna do tomorrow or what

you're gonna do next week all you can

think about is this like black cloud

that's following you around and this is

the worst thing and you'll get through

it it it won't ruin you if you don't let

it but it can be very easily ruin you

just by not you know not getting over it

yeah and just it's sort of like that

look I was gonna say I didn't feel too

bad going through it

for whatever reason weird makeup that's

just my odd personality I suppose but

yeah a very interesting story so people

check out that episode with another

thing I didn't know about you until I

was doing some research is you wrote or

you wrote a book right I wrote a book

called how to sell your home can you

tell me about the process the writing

and just how did it go well the process

was I made an outline I just sat down

like well what do I want people to know

I I want people to know how to sell a

house because there is so much that you

don't know about the process I learned a

lot from my sister who went through it

she was trying to sell her house and buy

another one and her real estate agent

was quite horrible she shouldn't keep

her informed of all the deadlines that

were coming up she didn't tell her the

home inspection process or anything like

that and my sister didn't know I wish

she would have asked me but whatever so

she had a home inspection on the new

property and there were like six things

really small things it was quite

interesting how great of shape this

property was and so she just she's like

so Mindy do they they'll just fix this

right I'm like well no you have to ask

them to fix it and she's like well so do

I just give him this sheet and I said

we'll talk to your agent because there's

usually a form to fill out so she calls

her agent and her agent said oh the

deadline passed yesterday why didn't you

ask her about that so you know I just I

wanted people to know the process for

selling a house and for buying a house

that's the next book it's coming out I

think next year I want to say January of

2021 how to buy a house but you know

there's so many things you don't know

about selling a house so that was the

reason I wanted to write the book and

then you know the process was I just I

wrote out an outline what do I want you

to know well let's let's look at the

reasons that you're selling this house I

have to move across country is a reason

that is going to have different

financial impacts on you then yeah I

don't like the kitchen great you don't

have to sell in a down market because

you don't like the kitchen you have to

sell even if it's in the down market if

you're moving across

country or you could turn it into a

rental but is that really something you

want to do not everybody wants to own

rentals I don't understand that but

whatever you know if you are moving

across country and you need to sell your

house you're gonna be able to you're

gonna have different motivations you're

gonna accept the offer that maybe you

wouldn't accept if you you know didn't

have to move we talked about or I talked

about different types of loans when

you're selling your house you're not

getting a loan but your buyer is getting

a loan here's what happens when you have

a VA loan here's what happens when the

person buying your house is using an FHA

loan here's what happens when they're

using a conventional loan you know cash

is cash nobody cares but a common

misconception for people who are selling

their house is that cash is somehow

better when you're buying a house with

cash you're not getting a lender to

approve your loan so there's that part

out of the way but at the end of the day

when I sell my house for $100,000 I'm

either getting $100,000 from your lender

or I'm getting $100,000 cash from you

I'm still getting $100,000 so sometimes

people will accept a lower offer on a

property when they don't really need to

right under this misconception that cash

is better mm-hmm so let's see and then

the writing process was I was on an

airplane from Chicago to Ireland and I

just typed for what is that eight hours

and then I flew back and did the same

thing and it was it was actually a

really short process to write the book

because I had the outline I knew you

know here's the head here's the the

chapter that I want to talk about here's

the four things I want to talk about in

that chapter I just kind of filled it

out and I've been doing this since I

don't know 1996 so I know all the things

it's just taking them out of my brain

and sticking them on a piece of paper

holy cow that's crazy because you hear a

lot of people talk about the writing

process but I mean not to death notes I

didn't do it right I didn't do it the

way anything else doesn't I just I wrote

out an outline and I filled out the

outline and I mean it works for me but

ya know I don't I don't have a lot of

good things to say like like good advice

for the

writing process that's great yeah you

just create the outline write the book

publish it that's it there you go yeah

so it is that book like I guess who's

the target

so anyone selling their home whether

it's with an agent or without or like

who's it yeah for that specific book so

this book is for people who are selling

maybe their first house or their second

house or a house that they haven't they

haven't sold you know in a long time so

they're unfamiliar with the process you

can be selling a rental property you can

be selling a primary residence I do

touch on for sale by owner but there's

so much to the buy and sell process that

I really do think you need to use an

agent to help you out I talked about the

different types of agency there's you

know the buyer's agent that charges a

like five or six percent and is the

full-service everything you need to sell

your house there's you know smaller what

is it called a flat fee agents where

they will show you the house and help

you buy it but they don't really do a

lot with you there's the flat fee agent

that is you know they I'm sorry this is

I'm in the middle of writing the by book

so yeah that's okay well what what I was

gonna say and I'll just interrupt you

there apologies no that's fine so I sold

the house that we moved from in Bozeman

and we contacted our it was a seller's

market

by far which is the reason why I was

like you know what let's give this a

shot because my experience like with

real estate is there's a lot of mistakes

made by well almost everyone in the

process there's like little mistakes and

there's so many people involved so it's

like you're your real estate agent the

broker some other person at the title

company blah blah blah so there's always

mistakes in every form that I got I'm

pretty good with details

my wife is too so we thought you know

what if if they can get by making all

the mistakes as long as we can like get

a couple offers I'm pretty sure we

should be able to figure it out so we

kind of stumbled our way through it and

it was probably the cheapest place we're

ever gonna sell so I was like this is a

good lower

risk time for me to make some mistakes

and figure it out it was fun I baked

cookies and the first person that came

in actually I went to go buy a like a

for sale by owner sign at the hardware

store

while I was at this store getting like

the phone number like stickers you know

uh-huh I got a text and it was like hey

I want to see the house this afternoon

so I was like holy holy I can't

believe it and so I grab the grab the

stuff bought it went home we got an

offer like later that day the funny

thing when I bought the sign I only got

stickers for one size this like that's

how incompetent I was just one side of

the sign and I took it back we never

even put we didn't have to put it up so

and then we got a backup offer so we

stumbled through it and it was fine but

it was kind of it was fun to learn again

like it was lower risk than any other

place that we potentially would sell in

the future so so there's definitely a

real opportunity to sell by owner if you

are realistic commissions are a lot they

hover between like two and a half and 3%

per side so that can be a large

percentage of the sale price I totally I

sold for sale by owner

two or three times and I had no qualms

doing it but I've also got a lot of

experience in it so I didn't feel like I

was making a bad move absolutely get a

real estate attorney involved in the

process because the forms that you need

to fill out to buy and sell a property

are enormous you want to make sure that

what they're buying is what you're

allowed to sell you know the the legal

description if there's a number

transpose or you know the the legal

descriptions are always really really

long and confusing you just want to make

sure that all the things are what you

mean to sell and what does this word be

there's a lot of words in the real

estate contract that in English they

mean this but in legalese they mean

something different and you just want to

make sure that your bases are covered

and a real estate attorney is going to

be a lot less expensive than a real

estate agent

a real estate attorney is not going to

let you into the property they're not

going to show the property they're not

going to do all of those things so you

know again back to your motivation why

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