hey it's Doug Pennington from niche site
project that I'm sending with Jim again
welcome Jim thank you
we're enjoying some drinks this is
actually just water here but we are
having beer so Cheers
indeed so this afternoon we're going to
talk about VA s and working with
freelancers specifically we're gonna I
guess sort of dive into promoting
different freelancers to do you know
additional work take on more management
type roles we're specifically going to
look at I guess writers content and see
how we can essentially take more stuff
off your plate right okay so a lot of
times it's difficult working with the
freelancers because they can disappear
sometimes maybe they go on vacation and
they don't tell you maybe they catch a
cold it's totally legit and it's not
like them being you're responsible right
but you know telling you that they're
sick and they're not going to write your
article is not high up on the list
especially if I'm a family or something
I could totally understand that just
happens in general so the goal
though today is to move past that and
then find you know I'm assuming you have
some writers that are good write at
least one that you're looking to give
more responsibility rests so like square
one do you know exactly what you want
out of this I guess takes it like said
takes more load off my plate and kind of
move it on to hers after our earlier
video we shot on how to really make that
great listing and how to go about hiring
you know kind of a freelancer to take on
did a killer job I've had her write over
20 articles now and now it's the point
where she's so dialed she's got the tone
everything down there a site she knows
how I like everything to come in she
writes it all in HTML and I can just
plug and play it's super nice very very
elite but what I'd like to do is maybe
even offer her more money so I could say
hey all right here's it a batch of 25
particles I want written and you know
kind of maybe no tape these have a
higher value to me you know maybe make a
monger put in some more affiliate links
XYZ but she was really good right off
the bat of saying you know there's some
interlinking opportunities between these
couple articles I can go ahead and just
like leave that open or highlight it you
know where I think you could naturally
link between the two so really my end
goal with her which is to be maybe take
on more of a managerial style like give
her access to the dashboard give her my
affiliate link information so she can go
and say all right I've got X amount of
articles and I've got X amount of
dollars and I've got these access points
so I can okay right get the articles
written to read to myself get them on
the thing and so they kind of just start
taking care of more of the work I guess
okay long answer but okay no no I mean
you you really have to talk to you at
all and a couple you know observations
so it'll be you have to set your
expectations right so one of the things
with expectations working with like
people or just going about your day is
if your expectations don't line up with
what really happens and then you don't
deal with it well yeah totally
frustrated right and you're like this
doesn't work but if you expect it to
maybe not exactly work out like you
planned and then you know you're gonna
have to adjust right well then it's okay
you're not gonna melt down and then you
can deal with it so it turns out I'll
tell you it's probably not gonna work
out perfectly right off the bat there
are some things you can do to make it
help sir to make it better and to help
out the process is a more clear way to
see it me say I was telling Jim that I
haven't been talking much today because
my wife's out of town so
just been talking to the dog which it
doesn't really promote a good grammar so
right right so anyway a couple things
that you could do to make it better okay
one is to be like really clear about the
roles and responsibilities that you want
the person to take on so if you imagine
like if you've had a job before where
they maybe your boss didn't tell you
exactly what to do or what they expected
you to do and they just said well you
are in charge of like keeping the
cupboard full of groceries or whatever
right I have no idea but you're in
charge of X but they don't really break
down where your role begins and someone
else's ends sure and either you could
end up with like overlapping work or
things that get missed
it's just ambiguous yes so if you are
very clear on you know what you want
done then things will be better now the
other thing is when you're writing out
that list there'll be a lot of stuff you
were brushing several things you want
you know the person the content manager
essentially to go into WordPress and
like do some stuff on WordPress which is
cool I would recommend like an author
role you don't want them to be an admin
of course sure they can mess things up
right but you can make them an author or
maybe even an editor but probably an
author to start out with and you could
check the different roles just on the
share press site and you can sort of
start adding like additional
responsibilities on there okay but you
probably want to do sort of a
progressive approach so very
specifically it would be you know
instead of you uploading the document
and you know taking the HTML get her
that access is an author and then have
her uploaded saving draft note sure and
then take a look at it maybe you want to
have her you know go ahead and add the
interim linking it seems like she's
already doing that perhaps the affiliate
links if there's an actual review
there or prot an opportunity to mention
a product she can
I think this slightly violates the terms
of service but it sort of works so take
it with a grain of salt but you could
take the essentially the affiliate ID
and use a format so it's like amazon.com
slash something and then like the
product code it's like weird yeah
numeric like I don't know it's like 16
characters yeah and then you could put
your affiliate ID at the end and that
will work it'll take you to like the
product and that's how you can have an
editor or writer or whoever actually
have those affiliate links in the
article without giving them access to
like your Amazon dashboard sure would
not want to do okay so layering on the
responsibilities it's like in a slow way
because if you give too much right it'll
be overwhelming for them and that sort
of thing so do you have any questions
about those two points I have other
stuff too good no this seems pretty
straightforward I was gonna mention to
you I mean I might have defined several
roles I guess in that in that kind of
rambling right description of what I
kind of was looking to do
I mean it's everybody's dream right it's
less less hands-on more automation or
outsourcing yeah and like I said it
might meet maybe two people or three
people but I have a really good writer
and so to move her up into the natural
progression of right hands-on in the
site she knows what's of what the site
is she's writing to the site and so she
can yeah obviously is a big part of it
right right tone okay
now one of the other parts is that you
mentioned is you know maybe giving her
effectively what sounded like a budget
and then the ability to like get the
content however she wanted right if she
wants to write it she can maybe she
wants to hire writers is that kind of
what you were getting at I thought that
made the most sense for me because then
I could say you know here's here's a
stash of money here's the articles get
them done how you see fit
you know if you want to round yourself
you might be able to take home a little
bit more if you want outsource some you
could free up some time just like we're
trying to do yeah and so you know I'd
like to move her up she's been very mmm
excuse me
very good very forthcoming she's like oh
this article is late you know feel free
to charge for pay whatever you want for
it and she got and she wanted very low
amounts of money to begin with and I
said no you give a quality work and so I
paid her what I thought it was worth and
so now I was just coming down to the
point where she's done such a good work
I beg I want to promote her in some way
so it's you know I can pay you more or I
can give you more time okay got you so
the issue that I see is okay so I'll
sort of ask a jerk question did did you
find it easy to hire people and
outsource content right no I did not
okay so this person is not going to
either
she didn't even have the motivation that
you did and now one of her skills may or
may not be hiring people maybe she's an
HR manager who knows most likely she's a
writer and she wants to keep writing and
she doesn't want to be a manager and she
doesn't want to hire people yeah so I
would guess that that would not work
okay you may get lucky and it might work
but I doubt it's because it's not easy
to hire people now I know friend of mine
John haver at authority website income I
think that's his URL there
he has like big teams and he hires I
mean he he does what you're talking
about but he has you know very specific
you know hiring procedures and actually
I think he has like teams with an up
work so it ends up being like he has a
manager in upwork that yes the ability
to hire other people yeah if you take
that approach I would maybe you know ask
your VA right that's this writer that
you're thinking of promoting like if
she's actually interested in like
learning that part of it sure if she is
then sure
you can like add on the additional
responsibilities okay again go back to
expectations right it's probably not
gonna work out right she may get
frustrated it and you may lose her right
if it's like just a big pain to buy it
right it may work out perfectly she may
being like a great person that's like
part of the organization in your word
but the other way is you could like
approach it in that you're hiring a
Content Manager and then you know you
could trial you can give them like a
trial job or something like that where
they're maybe they don't write it all
and all they do is find writers to write
the content yeah
now depending on how much content you
want to produce and publish you know
that you know it may only be like one or
two hours so we they're really just
doing like project management cuz
they'll have a list of keywords or
something like that the articles written
they'll have writers they'll have a pool
of writers and they'll just get it done
now what I end up doing or my situation
right now is I have a few writers some
come and go you know you know there's
some shelf life I mean people get busy
they have more free time and then
they'll disappear come back but I have
what worked out to be a Content Manager
because I hire a writer who had a few
people working with him so he would do
actually exactly what you're talking
about he would write some but he also
had people writing for him so it worked
out great because he was already doing
that and then we just you know basically
escalated what we were doing and started
doing more and more content for
different sites you know as he had more
confidence that I would like pay on time
and it was good to work with I got
confidence in his team so I can give
them lots of work I see and it just
happened by accident organically so now
there be any mm-hmm
incentive or benefit to maybe just
trying to outsource a Content Manager
versus promoting somebody she's great at
writing so there'd obviously be like I'd
want to have like a caveat in
saying listen if you hate doing this
right please stick around I want to keep
writing right yeah I mean you could
approach it you kit as long as you're
flexible and like that person is
flexible then you can approach it in
that way where it's like if you want to
she wants to give it a try
she can give it a try yeah matter she
doesn't like it she can move back to him
to the writing role or you can just hire
a Content Manager that you can plug in
right that maybe they're already
familiar with that kind of stuff sure
for my team I have it's basically editor
slash Content Manager so they edit the
work cuz the you know it's hard to edit
your own stuff the writers are writing
quickly so I don't expect it to be
perfect I just want it to be on time and
then the editor can fix it up she also
you know does stuff we've talked about
so right interlinking you know linking
to the affiliate products and then you
know just general grammar and editing
she actually finds images and other
relevant shirt off like everything and
formatting and then all I need to do is
like take a quick glance at the preview
of the post and then you can hit publish
it just takes a couple of minutes
awesome
so and this worked out well for me and
I've I mean I have to cycle through
editors too because they also get busy
or disappear like yeah that's right the
bad part of freelancing but the good
part is you can hire someone really
quickly so now have you once you've
built the team up what are you like
what's a good budget to set per article
like her I got to be my head of air
after my freelancer and I want you know
like so like how much is too much to pay
a team I guess or at least two people to
help contribute to an article yeah
somebody a good deal with my writer
currently she writes really well and I
have it set for ten dollars for a
thousand words and every 500 words she
wants to go ahead of that I just parent
additional five bucks gotcha okay
and I'm sure he might be right yeah it
will it I guess it depends on like your
budget and like your site and stuff like
that so for me I'm paying a little bit
more then you know what all I can tell
you it's like what I'm paying I don't
have enough data out there but okay so
I'll tell you that and I'll tell you
just anecdotally some other stuff of her
from like friends who have sites and
they're like pushing a lot of content so
I pay a little bit more some pain maybe
like $12 or 12 to 15 dollars depending
on the writer and that sort of thing and
then I have there's probably another $8
of editing and other stuff processing to
it that the content manager slash editor
sure will do
and the that role is paid like 850 an up
work okay so you know you can do the
math it takes um like 45 minutes to do
the other stuff right and then like I
said it takes me about two three minutes
to take a look at the post hit publish
good to go so do you pay hourly or fixed
price for that editorial work kind of
work I pay hourly okay some articles are
longer right Sarah and I try and do it
the most fair way because I don't want
to like have to hire a bunch of people I
give them raises on a regular basis like
you're fine start layering on additional
responsibilities right I'll pay more and
you know that keeps him around whereas
they they just want to keep you know
working so I'm gonna get a lot of like
application submissions that you post
the video yeah that's right yeah give
raises a try and pay for your way yeah
mm-hmm so yeah I guess overall roughly
like 20 bucks an article something like
that and obviously that can get
expensive if you're publishing a whole
lot of stuff but of course the idea is
the article is gonna make a lot more not
every article is gonna make that much
money every month right you're gonna
have some big winners and you'll have
some that you know maybe break even sure
and then you'll have losers it's like
don't get any traffic they don't make
any sales and you know
happens but the other shocking up to
building up the site right yeah yeah
so yeah roughly 20 bucks for an article
or so and I know you know some of my
peers are they're paying less when they
are not getting as much editing done and
I was talking to a friend the other day
and he said he actually goes through and
does the editing role and gets the
images true does the formatting and all
that stuff and he's publishing like a
lot of content I thought it was crazy
because he apparently he likes it will
says he likes it so I don't know yeah I
mean they use their own right once you
find a system that works yeah he
actually he should get rid of that cuz
it's taken up way too much time and he
that's where I'm at now
yeah I'm finding the images I'm you know
getting the affiliate links you know I
like to put the images for my products
in the article sure so build all that
stuff out so it does take time you know
you end up spending it maybe an hour
yeah pretty liberal book right you know
I want to go out kind of glossy I don't
want typos in there I don't want to go
in and be re-editing articles because by
the time I get published I want to be
focusing on the next content and keep
moving forward versus going oh I have to
go back and we're hand that article but
it's live worry about it right I just
want to get yeah yeah so let's see
trying to think if there's any any other
stuff can you think of any other your
questions or no I think we've covered a
lot of it yeah okay so next steps will
be I guess doing an outline of
responsibility I think would be my yes I
think actually I would I would say like
like journal for like a few minutes in
just like constant and just like what do
you imagine like the best-case scenario
of the role like what do you want the
team to actually look like I think I've
probably posted it before but when I was
building out like different teams and
stuff I was gonna post it notes and I
just made it or a chart and I'm like
this is how I would want it to work
right
and I think whatever I posted before
it's like that's a good way to do it
yeah that's what I did so obviously
that's what I like and some of the roles
like initially I did all the roles right
but you know when you build the org
chart then you could segment out that
you can get rid of that one piece right
because if you tried to hire other
people at the same time just smells it
so you would just get like one piece you
get one writer you get another writer
then you do the content manager sure
maybe build out the team slowly as the
people get acclimated to the environment
in the organization and then so anyway
journal and like write out how you would
actually want it to be sure like in the
best case scenario then you can take
that sort of narrative or whatever into
like the outline format which would be
like the roles and responsibilities okay
of like the specific role and then after
that pare it down to like the things in
which you can like hand off I would say
for me I usually do like you know I'd
give the editor Content Manager like
four things to do sure the first time
around so it's like you know the images
and interlinking within the site and
then two other things that I can't think
of right now
sure but essentially you just give them
a few things let them make like let them
succeed at that tell them to ask
questions you're gonna have to like know
a few pages out or do a video to show
them what you want them to do sure it
was really clear and then encourage them
to ask questions and like make it a
living document and then you'll be able
to you know give them an additional
thing you can also take those
instructions and hire another person
right now that you've had someone go
through it you've gotten rid of like the
really dumb mistakes and sure it's a
little just higher so anyway journal
write out the org chart that you want to
right out the roles of responsibilities
and then the sort of you know four or so
things to get to the content manager
okay all right so I'm gonna do you
should be able to do that and week or
two oh yeah yeah okay cool
all right if you have any questions on
sort of promoting one of your VA is to
you know a management type role you can
ask questions in the comments and I
guess if it's a you know more
specifically if it's around like content
management editing and that sort of
thing it at least it'll be relevant to
the video but if you have other
questions about you know having a
project manager come in and sort of you
know taking over certain pieces to make
sure the team is doing the job that
they're supposed to you can ask those
questions too
alright see you next time Thanks
of course Brody's like that's perfect
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