$40k/month with High Traffic Ad-Based Sites – Jon Dykstra Interview - Fat Stacks Blog #Best Education Page #Online Earning

hey what's going on it's Doug Huntington

from niche site project and in this

interview I talked to John Dykstra from

fat stacks blog John is a friend of mine

we've been emailing for years and this

is the first time that we like got to

have a long conversation and it was

awesome so if you don't know John you

should check out his blog after you

listen to this but he's making about 35

to 40 thousand dollars per month

alright per month from his ad base sites

so this is a bit of a contrast from what

I normally talk about which is Amazon

affiliate marketing that's kind of what

I specialize in but John's like on the

other side of the spectrum here so he's

doing like high-traffic sites like very

high traffic and AD based sites so it

was educational for me and it's very

interesting John and I have a lot of the

same sort of ideas about how we want to

run our businesses and like the size of

our teams for example working with

vendors and other contractors and stuff

like that so anyway I like John a lot I

hope you like them too let's get to the

interview right now thanks to John by

the way and yeah we'll see you on the

other side hey what's going on Doug

Huntington here for the Doug show and

I'm with my friend John Dykstra how are

you today

thanks for having me I'm looking forward

to this and this this is really cool

I've read your stuff for a long time and

I think we've exchanged some emails and

stuff but it's the first time face to

face via Skype so it's a pleasure to

talk to you and I know the audience is

really excited I got a few questions in

and yeah I'm pumped to get rolling here

so for the people that don't know you

John can you give a little intro about

what you do now and then we'll dive into

your origin story in a second but what

are you up to these days these days

Publishing number of sites I and myself

as an online publisher

and mostly niche sites really topical I

have Mele right now if you include fat

stacks site and I just work on them and

they're content oriented really they

want to be monetize with display ads

some affiliate stuff and that's pretty

much it and I tend to focus on a few

rather than on can't get a few along

it's use a few for testing purposes with

us but it and just hoping to grow them

out and on fat stacks you write about

like your online journey and working

online in general yeah that's pretty

much it tutorials what I'm doing how I

do it the pertaining to the other the

other eight new slides right on ok cool

and what's your what's your background

before you got into the online world

here yeah I used to practice law and

actually enjoy it that and plus with a

smaller firm the neater website that way

back into a five so I was tasked with

getting website got a company do it all

and they're like you know you should you

should try blogging that might be good

for some traffic and readers and getting

some clients I've no idea so I thought

no sure okay I I did it I no idea and

the herenga worked really really well

and keep in mind I mean there's almost

no competition back then so it was it

was good the SEO worked out really

really well so I started blogging just

weekend's few blog posts a month and

prospective clients liked it they came

in I mean and group act is pretty good

it turned out I like blogging more than

Lhasa I I moved in that direction and at

some point had to decide like doing both

was got to be difficult so I a juncture

in the full-time blog and have a look

back Wow

so yeah that's that's kind of crazy and

and let me make sure I got the timeline

right so in around 2005 you were

starting to like dabble and blogging but

it was for the law practice yeah that's

correct I did that for a number of years

quite a while until

2012 and were you doing the actual

blogging and stuff yeah I I didn't

outsource anything I mean you know

you're writing about law and in a

particular jurisdiction I mean it's got

to be it's got to be technically correct

right and so that was all me I really

enjoyed doing it and so yeah I spent the

time reading it on a lot so when you've

got I mean you you enjoyed your other

job which is rare that's super weird

actually cuz most that I work with they

hated it you know even even the people

that said they enjoyed it like they

hated it so how did you decide to like

stop practicing law and move into the

online area well yeah what was fun I did

criminal defense work and other

litigation so it's exciting it's very

exciting and I miss I miss some of it

you know I work with my dad which was

just fantastic I really enjoyed on and

missed the clients you know he you know

get to help people and so I missed out

but there are things you don't like like

you don't even control over your life

but it's trials or

you know very time-consuming of all

consumers really and and it's more

stressful frankly I mean you've got you

know you're dealing criminal matters

it's it's pretty serious stuff and

flexibility vacation that sort of thing

really really being more of a full-time

website publisher you get a lot more

flexibility in your life and about

something I really wanted so yeah it

wasn't an easy decision I can tell you

that because I really did enjoy it and

but ultimately the sweat decided I don't

regret it I'm I'm very happy with what I

do now so I carry on but it is nice

having that ticket you know about a

back-up plan a plan to be if ever

necessary so you know

it's good to have a back-up plan right

and i think i mean i iced i mean i was

not a lawyer but i had like a a

professional career and i was doing that

for about 10 years so i can go back if i

need to and it is nice to have like to

understand what it's like to work in a

corporate job or a professional you know

career like a lawyer so versus like if

we just got out of high school and

started doing this like I don't think

I'd be able to operate very well and

just like execute like I understand so I

don't know do you have any thoughts on

that or well really I think having a

ticket of some sort

it is a nice back-up plan you know let's

face it this this is you know what a

risky business I mean there are a lot of

factors beyond our control and a lot of

us talk about that regularly I mean we

rely on Google for traffic could we we

all a lot of us relied on Facebook once

upon a time until that party ended

abruptly Pinterest you know and we don't

really have a lot of control over these

things we do the best we can so there

are risks built in we do our best to

minimize them but you know it's it's

happen to other people and other

businesses have closed I mean it's just

that's the way it is but I mean you feel

like it abroad or - I mean jobs aren't

you know bulletproof in a job you're not

bulletproof with a brick-and-mortar

business it all has risk and you know I

think for me I'm well aware of it you

could try to diversify and it's possible

but and I do a little bit but yeah I

mean I'm just aware of it so when you

say having a back-up plan I think I

think it's good I like the fact that I

that idea is so

actually that's a great segue and I

actually I enjoy just like talking to

and getting to know people so we're

gonna circle back later with more like

personal stuff and just random things

that I want to ask you about but why do

people want to know about like your

portfolio of sites you mentioned you

primarily like publish a lot of content

you have ads on most your site so you

have about eight sites can you just tell

us a little bit about like the ad based

I guess for business model the ad based

business model here and why you ended up

there versus some other area yeah that's

a very good question actually

for the first half I would say of being

online here I did all affiliates stuff

because I read constant affiliates you

know that's where the money is and you

know ads are a waste of money it's

pennies versus dollars and and I bought

into it and I know I started up in each

site at one point and doing the

affiliate thing hammering away and was

going nowhere

and if I did have an adsense account

this is way back when the essence was

very easy to get so I just had one

languishing him and I decided I'll throw

a few ads on there and to see what

happens and it was like I mean for

relative to what the affiliates death

was doing it was amazing and that was

like right away I just saw the potential

of what ads could do for a site with

traffic so I completely shifted and I

still do a fair amount of affiliate but

this player is definitely i exceeded the

affiliate stuff and so yeah I I shifted

focus and now pretty much every site I

brought except for fast access had

supported and I liked it and I liked it

primarily because I love the flexibility

coming back flexibility again I like

flexibility of my life but I like it for

publishing to you because with affiliate

stuff if you want to make money with

affiliate links you have to publish a

certain type of car cap which we call

buyer intent and there needs to be and

intent behind it where somebody's going

to click and potentially buy if you put

a bunch of

links on just some general informational

stuff your chance of generating any in

clicks and sales and very low so but

with that that's you can write on any

topic you like and I really like that I

like to be able to publish I'm just some

random informational article that I find

interesting or topic that's related to

the news and that could still monetize

that and that was really freeing so

that's that's that was a huge point and

I was able to really go after a lot of

topics with almost no complication or

very little competition and focus on

publishing content and know that the

content would be monetized and I'm not

saying this each piece of content makes

a fortune format it's it doesn't but

it's in the aggregate I'm able to

publish more content I'm able to go

after more traffic and so it's a it's a

higher traffic volume model but it's for

me it's worked out very nicely

yes and I'll put links and stuff but you

do publish some income reports and just

say for about like the last several

months like what's the average profit

from your portfolio of sites that you

publish income reports on well it ranges

from plane out ranges about I would say

thirty or forty five thousand US a month

my expenses fluctuate a little bit and

obviously revenue fluctuates but yeah

that that's the range we're talking

about right now okay excellent I just

want to give everyone like the scope of

what we're talking about so most people

would say that serious money beyond like

you know full-time what most people are

are making like in general so that's

awesome congratulations John thanks good

and the thing I want to do is sort of

like focus in on sort of like one of the

sides of course will be not revealed or

anything like that but one of the sites

is sort of like

the big the big guy right it's making

most of the money and what kind of

traffic or you see it on this

now that's approaching a million

visitors a month right now yeah so and

then the page views are quite a bit

higher I get quite a few page views per

visitor so yeah you say yeah it's it's

it's hard to focus with that intensity

on more than one site so it does get the

lion's share of resources in my time and

I mean I'd be dumb not to do because

that's the big earner but like you say

I've got a better friend and he's got

the same thing it was a bunch of sites

and he's got he's got the big guys or

the big guns and then you know the

little sites that you kick along and I

actually like having some smaller sites

for right now I'm doing a bunch of ad

testing so if I want to test a different

ad network or something I got a handful

of sites that together I get 10,000 page

views a day or visitors and that's

enough I can test stuff without testing

on on them the biggest training sites so

that that's actually a nice arrangement

for me so I'm currently doing and some

testing and which helps me give me good

information to write about on that

stacks but I do definitely focus on and

resources on one site for sure that was

my dog Georgie sorry about that this is

a very casual situation so sometimes she

helps us out here

and okay so a ton of traffic and most of

the money is made on that one site you

have the other sites you could do some

testing that's fantastic so like I guess

can you tell us about like how old the

site is like how much content are you

publishing in some of the details as

much as you could share I know some of

this is proprietary information but as

much as you could share on that sure the

site launched in February 2014 and it's

definitely had ups and downs a tight I

used to be you so I kind of started

buying face to foot traffic and building

up a Facebook page with it and buying

fans I mean

you've been around long enough to

remember those days when Facebook was

very fact about that so that definitely

helped get the ball rolling first couple

of years now Facebook is there's no

point in really using it so I really

focus on Google search but so yeah we're

approaching unapproachable five years

now with that site in terms of there's

about thirty three hundred articles on

the site right now I add one two three

new ones and in a slow a little bit down

in the weekends of also in the last year

to you've been putting a lot of effort

into updating older content let's say

I've learned a lot since 2014 on what's

a good article and quality and what

works with Indonesia I've learned a lot

about working with Indonesian what

doesn't work so I'm going back and

fixing up some of the older stuff so so

that's the process right now it's the

volume I'm doing is it's actually not a

lot of volume what one - two or three

articles add a new is is nothing

compared to a lot of sites out there but

they do take a lot of work

that yet that's alarming for some people

and then other folks would think okay

that's not so bad

and I take it at this point you're not

doing the writing yourself you have some

folks that help you out with writing I

do I have use of variety of services and

but I do write sometimes something if

I'm interested in topical I'll write it

could I like right yeah but yeah I rely

mostly I would say the line chair the

content is done with other people

helping out okay gotcha and it sounds

like you hire services you're not

managing or like doing any HR for like

writers or whatever right no no I do use

services I have I have a site manager

that oversees a lot of it and she's a

huge help and really know she pretty

much knows everything on the side and

then yeah I tend to use agencies but I

use a variety of them because I find

that each one has pros and cons so like

I bring it down to two different types

of agencies okay there's the agency by

agency I mean writing agency or writing

service so there's the one that you

would hire you pay him a bunch of money

in your order let's say a hundred

thousand words for an order and you're

giving them a list of topics and what

they do is they will assign your work to

one or two writers and it will drip feed

content they'll say we'll do a

turnaround time of six weeks but we'll

be able to kick back you know a few

articles a week to you and and that's

great and so that model works for a lot

of one of you because I don't publish

everything in one day and not do

anything for a month we I do it daily or

every other day

so that's one type of agency the other

type is something where you submit your

your project or writing tasks and then

you're basically submitting it to a huge

cool little writers all right and then

so you can you kids literally submit a

hundred thousand words let's say broke

it up into 50 articles and you can have

them all picked up by 25 or maybe 30

different writers within a day or two

and they'll turn them around in a week

so you could literally get a hundred

thousand words back to you in a week so

that's a different agency model and they

both have their advantages right like so

I need something that's I don't want to

interrupt the flow of the agency that

drip feeds to me so I'll use that I'll

submit the couple projects they get it

back to me in three days and then and

then I have my main writing agency that

just sort of continuously drip these

articles to me and then we get them

published on the side perfect that is a

great explanation and I've been in the

same boat where sometimes you you're

just in a little bit of a hurry and

other times you can you know put it on

the autopilot and let things happen so

that makes total sense now it just it

could be a very short answer but like

you you're obviously working with

agencies and/or you know the services

that can handle it versus hiring people

on your own and just the other day on

YouTube someone was like hey Doug you're

an idiot for paying that much for an

article you could hire someone like a

college student and manage them and

train them and do all this stuff and get

it for pennies on the dollar so why

don't you try to hire people at a

cheaper rate because I don't like to

manage that's straight up I'll tell you

that I don't want to manage three or

four now I'm not saying I want to do it

and I think there are huge advantages I

think you might get better quality

control but you know my main rating

agency that I use I have a point person

there who manages it and it's not a

perfect service nothing will be but it

helps me out a lot because I don't have

to deal with that and I don't want to

manage two three four people at all

so I'm balanced that's principally why

in terms of then the other ones the

other types of writing services where I

can get all the articles back in you

know three to four days I tend to manage

out but that's more of a one else

situation that's not something where I'm

doing that at Ruby Graham submitting a

huge order so I try to keep my

management to a minimum because I'm not

a money good manager and I don't care to

manage I have other areas that I like to

focus on so that's why they don't do

that

perfect great answer John love it yeah I

said virtually the same thing I think I

I'm a pretty good manager but you know

there's so much other stuff to do in the

world like then try to wrangle a college

students who don't give a about

like what you're working on you know so

yeah I was like if I'm going on vacation

I can't babysit writers that are not

professionals versus I think we could

mention the company I think we used the

same one I found them through you

content development pros right yeah

that's the one that's the main outfit

I'm using right now yeah yeah and like I

gave them thank you for the

recommendation by the way you've gotten

Sur affiliate Commission's over there

from me but yeah they've pushed out

while I was on vacation they pushed out

like 50 articles in about 30 days and I

had my one VA similar to you I have some

folks that are sort of in the inner

circle and they took care of everything

while I was gone I answered no questions

[Music]

for sure so yeah I think people have to

look at like what's important to them

and what they like working on if you

really like hiring people from up work

that's crazy but maybe you should open

an agency but if that's if that's what

you want to do that's totally cool so

okay for LeTip some of the questions

that were sent in by a couple of my

students who are big fans of yours a lot

a lot of common folks so this is from

Graham and he has a specific question

here so okay so if if you had a site

that's been penalized by a Google update

and most of the traffic went away what

would you do

he had a couple like you know things

that maybe he would try but I'll just

leave it open and yeah go ahead

I would probably build on it start

something new or by buying it existing

site oh it's not penalized been there

though I bought a domain it was rotten

to the core and I didn't know it so been

there I'd bet on it I mean I don't know

I mean I guess why my first question to

that question is is something have you

already put like tons of time and money

into it or you just it's kind of a new

thing you've gone too far down the

rabbit hole and that's case you just

just walk away and do something else I

don't know see I'm not I'm not a real

technical SEO so I know they're people

seem to claim that they know how to do

disavow with links and get sights on

penalized or other you know no more

problems I don't know how to do any of

that so and I don't care learn I don't I

I suspect they're very expensive to hire

to do it for you so I'm not sure that

would be working this so I don't think

I'd have a choice but to walk away okay

and again good answer I think I think

I'll add in my some of my own thoughts

here I think if it was like a viable

viable niche like overall potentially

like grab that content go to a new

domain like work it out I think in the

last like year or so Google has been

coming down harder on some of those they

call it the your money or your life sort

of topic so if it's not health-related

or if it's like financially related you

may have trouble it may take a long time

to recover that so unless you happen to

be like a doctor or a financial adviser

or something I would probably like move

on and pick something a little easier so

as far as like the disavowing and stuff

I have some experience like helping I've

had some stuff penalized by the way and

at some point it's like yeah you just

gotta take what you learned move on so

well that said let's let's move on to

sort of link building areas so I kind of

have an idea what you may save for this

but what do you do for link building

aside from the few experience experience

or experiments or one out of testing and

so forth I don't do anything I try to

focus on the content attract light

rather than build them and well it's not

that I have a moral issue with link

building and I don't think it's a moral

issue whatsoever it's a business

decision for me I kind of prefer to hunt

out low competition keywords and topics

publish good content putting some stuff

in there that may attract links I kind

of find my custom graphics and images

can can do well to attract links

regularly because people rip them off

and they'll give you a source link which

is great steal all the stuff you want my

site as long as you give me a link and a

happy one so yeah that's what I do I

don't really do outreach I don't you do

guest posts but I do some run

experiments yeah but like I said I've

got a bunch of sites and so on my knees

as guinea pigs I try stuff but that's

really about it

so yeah frankly nothing and can you talk

a little bit more about like the content

that attracts links you mentioned images

and any other like tips maybe people can

test out I think well I I kind of came

across this because I like linking out

to good resources in my content that

will help readers so I find out like

statistics or data tables charts

illustrations a good photo if you take a

good photo for licensed one these are

all things that other seconds for years

on their site they'll either just take

it from your ask you to use it I've had

two publications email being asked to

use various media in there for the

battery I don't get a link because it's

print but you know they usually give

some form of attribution and I'm like

yeah of course great thanks for asking

so you know just I don't know give

really technical stuff vest cover and

elsewhere and then different types of

media will tend to do it but I'd only

get the impression like oh if you put on

two cool graphics on your website the

links are gonna pour in because it's not

gonna happen

it's it's sort of a

it's it's a big punch and it takes a lot

of them and some will work at some won't

and it takes a lot of content and it

takes a lot of time for other sites to

find these but what's interesting is

it's almost kind of an exponential

effect as as you do attract links over

time you attract more links at a faster

rate because you're ranking more content

other publishers find you more easily

and they link to you so it's it's sort

of the self-fulfilling cycle so you just

gotta hang in there in the beginning so

you know don't go spend $5,000 on

graphics and then expect like you know

in three months you're going to have all

the traffic anymore because that's not

gonna happen

and I tried because I did Commission an

expensive infographic once upon a time

thinking oh if I get this great

infographic I'll do all the outreach

again you know hundred sites will put it

on there say I mean the results were

terrible and the infographic was good

the results are terrible so yeah I I

agree

like I've actually tried the infographic

stuff and the thing is uh well honestly

people like you and I will publish a

case study make it sound relatively easy

even though it may have been a few tries

and a little more iteration out there

but if you give it a shot and you know

you know you're not gonna stick with it

like for iterations then may not work

that well but you're right that

exponential like link growth if it's

like actually the keyword golden ratio

is like super helpful for that cuz you

can rank for some obscure terms some

sorta like head shining gel for bald

people or some kind of you know product

that you and I would look at and then

you rank number one because no one else

is publishing anything and then you get

some links from that and then like you

said this is self-fulfilling you know it

just pushes everything else out so

pretty cool so and anything else from

like an SEO standpoint maybe on the

content side it sounds like maybe you're

mostly focusing on the keyword research

and then like just a huge volume

I assume pretty high quality content for

the site so any tips on on-page you know

I don't get that technical about it I

use a lot of header tags or header tags

h2 h3 h4 z-- I like to structure I'm

actually pretty fanatical about how its

structured in terms of a lot of headings

proper use of subheadings and then a

table of contents at the top to tie it

all together so that works well for me I

use a lot of images as well and I take

the time to write a really good alt text

usually either a phrase or sometimes a

full sentence in there sometimes I had

captions sometimes I don't but yeah you

know all of these little things I think

and this this adds up in terms of

consuming time so that takes a long time

you add 15 images to an article and do

all the alt text I mean that that alone

will take time not to mention optimizing

the images but yeah I just try to

structure it really well I try to be

thorough I'm using clear scope right now

which basically analyzes you know

whether you've got all the proper

keywords or phrases or so forth within

the article and I started use them a few

months ago and they're like market views

but just as much money I think market

uses a fantastic raqqa in fact I I did

use them for a while and they're right

they're just very expensive and you know

if you're if you're a fortune 500

company and their rate that's obviously

not gonna you know put a dent in you but

for me it was a bit hefty so Clara scope

does a really nice job simple to use so

I've been using that and actually what's

nice is the I've got the writers who use

a - you can add users so pretty much all

the content that's going out right now

is getting run through clear scope and

and again using clear scope it's not

going to guarantee that you're gonna

rank for everything it's just another

step to take to sort of help things

along and that's why I use it I don't

expect miracles from any one technique

you just sort of try to do the best you

can in everything and some stuff will

work out

yeah good I didn't even know about that

tool but yeah market Muse is quite

expensive I mean it's really for like

you said fortune 500 like big agencies

or something okay cool now one other

question around sort of a bit kind

actually too is there it a certain

length of content that you aim for or it

just depends on the topic really depends

on the topic but I would say I'm gonna

habit of 1,500 to 3,000 words okay

generally long for most people would say

okay very good and then do you have a

strategy you said you're going back and

auditing some of your old content and

you have a lot of content is that over

3,000 pieces of content so how are you

handling that from like a sanity and

system standpoint to actually get

through it and like hit the most

important stuff while you know ignoring

the noise over here right well I've

learned a lot since then so it's a piece

of content was published here four years

ago I probably didn't structure it with

heading tags as well as I do now so

that's an easy fix and may not have a

table of contents because I manually

insert that in each article so I do that

I can run it through clear scope which

has helped that's a time-consuming

process but it'll help me figure out

what additional topics I should add to

the article so I've been doing that I

mean one fairly easy way to do this I

would do and some frequently asked

questions adding them into some articles

if it makes sense if there's an angle

for FAQ in their soul at that and yeah

really clear scope has helped quite a

bit

even just looking at it I know my niche

is pretty well so I can look at an

article and be like okay well a year ago

we started doing you know what we've

expanded how how online articles and how

deep we go into a topic so I will look

at some of the older stuff say well you

know I miss this this and this and that

can easily be done so but that's that's

what I do sometimes it's it's a

20-minute process sometimes it's almost

like writing a whole article from

scratch so atrocious it

yeah I am I can relate like as I'm going

through a couple of my sites even in

site project when I look back at some of

the early post like it's just a mess and

across my multiple sites I have upwards

oh well over a thousand like pieces of

content so I'm like okay what what do I

need to work on it's kind of hard to

just like for everything interesting

okay now you mentioned you have like you

know the service of writers that you're

the services that you use you have it

sounds like a site manager so do you

have any full-time folks that work with

you or is it all like part-time

freelancers huh how's your team yeah I

have five full-time the ACE right now

that I handle a lot of things so one

does just graphics so when we talk about

creating custom illustrations and charts

and all that sort of thing that's what

he does he does a really nice job so you

sometimes we get three done a week

sometimes one a week depends on the size

of it and then I have one who manages

the other four as well as the content

coming in and then I have the three

others who just help with optimizing

images big seeking out older content

doing a big project right now updating

some older articles or more image focus

so it's a lot of managing the images

rather than the text so they're doing

that right now and how did the team like

grow over time I assume when you your

first transitioned over it's probably

just you so how did the trajectory yeah

but it's just me for quite a while the

person you met who manages right now she

was the first person I heard I don't

really like the other like I didn't know

what you know I just I think she was one

of the first algebra kids and sound like

she could she could do it and I worked

out with her for three or four years and

she's great and so

yeah I just slowly but you said have

more employed sometimes I have a huge

project that might take three months so

I'll ramp up a higher but I tell them up

front

you know this is a isn't one a project

the position needs to get me into you

know roughly around so and so but right

now I think we've got you know ongoing

work for four or five right you know I

don't know it just sort of just sort of

happened

just keep hiring people and as the

projects came along you okay hi I'm a

scale down again in the future

kinda depends on money needs I mean

scale up and just sort of see how it

goes

I won't say month by month basis but

maybe yearly basis gotcha and do you

have any tips for people who are on the

cusp of like maybe hiring someone or

they're not sure if they should any tips

the one thing I've found out is as part

of the hiring processes I'll actually

send them assignments actual real

assignments similar to what they would

be doing I actually tell them I'll pay

them for the time if I'm going to use

the work because I don't want to just

get a bunch of free work for people and

so I'll do that now maybe shortlist

anywhere from five to seven and let them

actually execute the projects I tell

them to track their time so I know what

I paid them but I also use that time

tracking so I can see how quickly they

get the work I mean match it to how well

it was done so that I know it adds up

three or four days so the hiring process

and I know when you want to hire someone

I'm like hire instantly but I found that

actually just taking that extra time and

doing that has helped find good people

that was particularly useful the guy who

I hired from graphics because I had

seven people actually do some graphic

projects and the range in quality and

how quickly they can do it was huge and

there was one standout and fortunately

he accepted the jobs

yeah it makes a big difference you sound

like a pretty good manager and maybe

you're not giving yourself enough credit

but in terms of hiring you know I used

to do shortcuts that you should not not

just hate the time to and it resulted in

in some some bad hires

lately though well now now I've got to

the point that this is actually great

because my project manager who's been

with me for three she now does all

higher which is great so she posts as

the a she post the ads she bets them all

so I'm no longer doing it which I really

like because hiring is am but not are

not a fun process it's hard it's you

know you and I think I think the stuff

that I don't like doing is often when

it's when there's uncertainty about it

and it's like I don't know if you're

gonna hire the right person it's really

a crapshoot and I think every business

will tell you that and you just don't

know it's like you get a higher up

you're gonna train them which is a ton

of work and then and then you're gonna

pay them and it doesn't work out it's

really frustrating and this can happen

over and over and over and in fact the

last round that we hired I think she

hired a total of six or seven people and

and three stayed on so you know it's

it's a frustrating process

yep in that you know when were like

paralleling quite a bit here like I have

been training one of my VA s to hire

folks on Pinterest create the job

posting do all like all the things and I

don't do anything it's great and she's

learning right the VA that's hiring

folks she's learning so it's like more

interesting work for her she's building

skills like she hadn't done these pieces

she hadn't fired anyone before so I had

to teach her how to fire someone in a

proper way all that kind of stuff yeah

so like it runs the full spectrum and

yeah like it sounds like you got a great

you know assistant doing the PM work and

all the HR garbage that you know you

don't want to do so okay let's uh let's

move on to some mistakes so it sounds

like you've had like a rich career in

this online space have you made any like

awful blunders that you could share and

hopefully we could learn something from

and I didn't prep you ahead of time so

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