hey what's going on stuck Huntington
here and in this video i interview
Amelia Gardner and she is a I would call
it a recovering lawyer so she practiced
law for a few years and then she started
getting interested in internet marketing
mainly for freedom with her time and to
be able to spend time with her kids and
her family and just you know get out of
the environment of like the courtroom
and lawyers and that sort of thing
I found her because she has a YouTube
channel and she publishes a lot of
content and I was like hey she seems
alright she interviewed my friend John
Dykstra and that's an interview you
should probably check out do check out
Amelia's YouTube channel she does a lot
of case studies and they're the raw
authentic videos and we basically just
ramble on and on we just we just talk
and it's like you're sitting in the room
with us as we're just chatting getting
to know each other a little bit so
without further ado let's hear from
Amelia and don't forget check out her
YouTube channel what's going on it's
duck Huntington here for the Doug show
and I'm with my new friend Amelia how
are you today I'm great how are you
doing really good and for the people
that don't know you at all can you give
us like a short intro about who you are
and what you're working on now you said
a short intro because it seems like it
would be really hard for me to like like
put that into something short but
basically I'm like you I'm a person who
is I don't want to say middle-age but
I'm headed that way and I'm just in this
place in my life where I want to make
money online and I want to do it in the
right way and I want to replace my old
job my own career with this whole stuff
online and so as to what I'm doing um
how long you got like I could talk about
what I'm doing for days but basically
the summary of it is I'm I'm trying to
make money online just like everybody
else he's probably watching this very
good and you have a youtube channel so
we'll back into it I will segment it so
we can have a more structured
conversation here so you have a YouTube
channel and you are talking about a lot
reasons why
I invited you to do this interview is
because you're doing case studies which
are generally hard to come by and a lot
of people don't share case studies if
they aren't like just home runs and
you're sharing along the way which is
great and you've built up somewhat of a
community people like your videos your
channels growing and you're doing
interesting stuff so that's why I
invited you here additionally you left a
what seemed to be like a successful
career because your previous profession
was in law so can you tell us just again
briefly like you did some law stuff
right how did how did you get into
lawyering how did I get into loitering
well that goes back way further than
recently you know I was like I was a kid
20 years ago and I decided that I wanted
to do something that I thought my
parents would like and that's how I
ended up in the practice of law it was
sort of one of those things forearms
like this sounds cool let's do it
without really giving a lot of thought
or doing much investigating into whether
or not there was any sort of quality of
life like I just knew lawyers made a lot
of money and I wanted to make a lot of
money and so I went to law school
because that's how you make a lot of
money but then I started practicing law
and I realized that I owed a lot of
money because law school cost a lot and
then you know quality of life like there
are definitely a lot of trade-offs for
all that money that you made I mean as
far as sacrifices and time and family
and yeah I mean you had money but there
was no time to take a vacation like okay
sure you have two weeks of vacation but
you have so much stuff going on like
there's never a vacation when your
lawyers just flex time like you do that
work that you should have been doing you
just do it when you're not on vacation
so you work those 18-hour days to try to
make up for that and then my kids came
and I realized this is not a long-term
thing like I don't want to be working
18-hour days I don't want to miss
everything I would rather make less
money take a giant pay cut live super
simple and try to make something else
work and so I can see my kids as much as
possible and so that is the primary
motivation to moving to this whole you
know make money online thing
and honestly though when I got started
doing this I really never thought that
it would be a career because when I got
started I didn't know that much about it
I had experimented with KTP a little bit
it's like oh this is a fun way to make
it a couple extra dollars
self-publishing and then I found that
there's this whole community like this
whole world of people who were doing
this for a living and I was like what
how is this not a scam like this is a
legitimate thing and the more I dug and
the more I dug you know I'm super
suspicious I was like this isn't real
these people aren't really doing this
they're trying to sell me some crack but
the more I dug I started to find people
like you and John Dykstra and these
other folks in this you know I put up my
fingers in my my community that are
really making a living doing this and I
was like I want to be you guys like I
want to do what you're doing so that's
pretty much what I do every day now is
try to figure out how to do what you
guys are doing and to do it as well as I
can
awesome so let's get into some of the
case studies and we may circle back to
some of the like work work-life balance
and some of the quality of life stuff
because that's interesting and everyone
is either they should be thinking about
it or they are thinking hey like I can
reprioritize what I'm doing I have some
breathing room now and that sort of
thing so let's start off with the like
adsense case study I believe you bought
a few sites at one point and can you
start at the you know the beginning of
that and just tell us about what's been
going on well the my youtube channel I'm
not an expert right like I'm call myself
not a beginner but I wouldn't call
myself a newbie but I wouldn't put
myself in a level of expertise where I
feel comfortable like selling a course
like I wouldn't make a course and say do
what I'm doing I feel like most of my
attempts to start websites or to start
online money-making activities have been
experiments and every one of them I've
learned from and you know we haven't
talked about this but I have started
lots of websites that didn't launch like
just completely failed to launch because
I didn't know what I was doing or I
needed to gain experience and so this
particular case study is one of those
things and the reason I started it was
because last year
in about February I bought John
Dijkstra's blogging course that was
forty seven dollars a year and he's not
offering it anymore and it's sad because
it was so great for the money wasn't 997
dollars it was forty seven dollars for a
year and it was laid out so well and so
simple and I saw it I was like I can do
this right like I can do this this is
not a funnel and it's not an
autoresponder and it's not solo ads and
all the rest like this is just the model
of start a website a simple good-looking
theme you know a simple domain and not a
lot of plugins and just start creating
content you know focusing on long tail
low competition keywords with the
purpose of monetizing it with display
ads with Adsense or azoic or monument
metric whenever you get there but
instead of focusing on money keywords
you know that the folks who are doing
Amazon affiliate stuff with like look
for the informational keywords and then
try to get as much traffic as possible
because you're targeting keywords that
the the marketers that the money makers
the shakers aren't targeting because
technically they seem like keywords that
you couldn't make money from and so the
goal is to build as much traffic as you
can and the rest and I thought okay this
sounds like a simple plan I don't need
to do anything other than sit down and
write blog posts and so I just basically
implemented everything that he said to
do in that forty seven dollar course and
then my case study you know is going
back month on month and just tracking
okay here's what I managed to post
here's what sort of traffic I'm seeing
you know here's what I'm doing and
whether or not that was a good idea and
and then just I'm in month ten of this
so I just uploaded month ten of this I
started it back in April and so far I
think the strategy is working you know
I've gotten to date for this in ten
months I've had what 60,000 page views
and ten months for a brand new site you
know and the growth of the site
basically followed what I expected
to see you know we talked about whether
or not the sandbox
like people say oh it does or a dozen
but you know the first couple months I
didn't see any traffic and then just
over time I've seen a lot of growth and
now I'm just like kicking myself because
I got like three months in right and
you're in the sandbox and you know
wasn't seeing a lot of growth and I
published like close to 200 articles
right almost 200 articles in three
months summer that I outsource because I
was experimenting you know with some of
the things that John talked about in his
course and then a month three I ran out
of gas it's like this I don't know if
this is gonna work like not seeing
traffic and obviously I'm not seeing
money because I'm not monetizing it with
any of their affiliate programs and I
got approved for Adsense right away you
know like a month away right so Adsense
is on there but I felt like three or
four pennies that I made in July and so
I figured I've just put it down and I
would be patient and I went to work on
YouTube for a bit and then I check back
in the night September and I wanted to
slap myself because of course all those
articles that I had produced started to
see traffic and then you know it was
really hard to turn the motor on again
because I was so involved in YouTube but
just continuing to watch that site grow
and like I better get back on this so in
January I started creating content for
it again it's like okay you know this is
a long term asset right it's not like
something that I'm just gonna turn and
flip tomorrow something that I'm hoping
to build and build and build and hang on
to for a while until I can get it to
something someplace where I want to sell
it or if it's just something that earns
money every month so and can you share
the like traffic for like last month
which would be January of 2020 sure I
had what was it sixteen thousand users
and just over 17,000 page views a lot of
people are coming to the side and
answering getting their questions
answered and then I'm having to work on
strategies to keep them on the site
because a lot of it is informational
right they go there and they get the
answer to the question and then they're
not that interested in going into the
rest of the site so you know I have the
related post plug-in which seems to be
only kind of effective a lot of people
go to the home page which i think is
unusual
a lot of people just bounce right back
but I'm seeing a lot of people clicking
on the logo to go back to home and
looking at the front page so I'm working
on creating kind of I put up my air
quotes like vinge worthy content on the
home page to say okay if somebody went
there maybe they wouldn't find that
content with the Google search but maybe
it would be click Beatty enough and good
enough where they would click on it and
then stay to try to improve those other
Google Analytics metrics you know like
the bounce rate and the time on sigh and
and all that stuff so that's actually
what I'm working on in the last couple
days is putting out more of like a
journal that isn't really going to be
found with organic search but it's
something that people see that they're
like oh you know that's interesting it's
maybe I wouldn't have found it any other
way but maybe it will suck them in and I
guess I'll just see if anybody actually
clicks on those posts you know or not
cuz I'll know you know if they were
they're not that smart and I I mean I
agree with what you said like I don't
think many people like after they have
their their problem solved they're not
looking around to waste time generally
by clicking on your homepage and then
like what can I you know just avoid
doing work or whatever I guess a lot of
people do that cuz now that I'm saying
it I'm like sometimes I go to Instagram
and I just endlessly scroll as I'm
trying to waste time but rarely do I go
to I hope like find a site have my
problem solved get the information then
go to the home page so intro that's why
I don't really like worry too much about
the bounce rate in Google Analytics like
an almost a hundred percent bounce rate
really doesn't bother me that much
because that doesn't mean that people
aren't getting what they need from my
site it just means that they are going
back and that's actually one thing that
I really love about is oeq because their
bounce rate metric only triggers if
somebody stays on the site for less than
a certain amount of time so they'll call
it a balance if somebody bounces before
30 seconds have passed or something or
10 seconds I forget what it is and then
they won't call it a bounce if somebody
stays longer than 30 seconds so my
bounce rate for this site is like 94% in
Google Analytics but in azoic it's under
20% so 80% of the people who
to my site stay at least 30 seconds
which to me I don't think that that
counts as a bounce and they also call it
a navigational about so if somebody gets
there and they're like oh crap I don't
want to be there and they click back
right away that's also another metric do
Google Analytics doesn't give us and
that's why I'm obsessed with this look
right now
cool yeah I like zoic I am a friend of
their so okay so any other like notable
stuff on the like that adsense case
study
oh you mean notable like notable like I
try all kinds of things and it either
does nothing or I can't really tell one
way or another whether or not it's
having a positive impact I mean there's
all kinds of stuff that I'm trying out
but yeah about a couple of those like
things where you're like hey I was gonna
test it out and this clearly did not
work or or I could just clearly not tell
one way or another because you know I
have a site that's on a traffic you know
range like this and so I say okay let's
see about buying a backlink from the
Hoth which I did in November I thought
okay like they're on sale let's just try
this out and then you know never having
done it before I say okay let's just try
this and so I went there and bought a
backlink and I didn't spend top dollar I
just spent one you know one of the lower
ones I'm just like sticking my toes in
right so there's $150 I thought let's
try this and then you know it was went
like clockwork they said oh thank you
very much you'll have your backlink
within 30 days and I got the report and
I don't know
I cannot tell one way or another whether
it did a single thing like I see the
link in Google search console like I can
see the link on you know the website but
can I tell whether any of the growth
that I have had is as the result of that
like I have no clue like whatsoever
like literally I I mean I probably
shouldn't have spent that money I
probably should have not a bothered but
you know that's one of those things well
I was gonna say do you have a way to to
check that in the future so you know
you've identified hey it's pretty hard
to tell if a backlink helps so I think
that
I ever got to a place where the the site
wasn't growing but it was stabilized
like it was flat like if the site was
over at that point where it wasn't flat
or maybe if it was going down the thing
is like when you're continually adding
continents
like do you really know whether or not
it's the new content I mean obviously
you can go and check analytics to see
the pages like the specific pages what
sort of traffic they are getting but
just overall like if the site is about
the same you know that could be a good
time to try adding like one link right
just one of the time and then watching
it for a couple of months without
changing anything else but if you're
constantly testing and constantly
changing things like how do you know and
that's the thing about the algorithm
updates right like people you know their
site takes the hit and they're like and
then they change everything right I need
more content and I need backlinks I need
to disavow this and I need to add this
and then then what like what was the
thing like what was wrong like we have
no idea so I that's actually been
something that I've had to work on is
being patient and trying to do maybe one
thing at a time rather than a hundred
things because if I really want to know
what's working or what's not I have to
slow down and that was one thing that
was really hard with Adsense when I
first got started because you know you
want to test out the the ad positions
right that you put the ad unit here and
then you put one here and then you watch
it for like two days you're like okay
maybe if I move it here it'll be better
but two days is not long enough as far
as testing the performance and how that
is a good place or not you have to wait
like you should wait a month I think at
least like put it there and then watch
the stats on it for a month and then
move one not three of them not four of
them not ten of them just one and couple
observations and number one you know
I'll ask you a question there's a
question at the at the end of this but
there are over 200 ranking factors with
Google and yes we're usually hopefully
doing multiple things at the same time
that are beneficial so yeah it's like
virtually untraceable unless you have
like a super like scientific way to do
this which there you know there are
people like Kyle roof and the people in
the IMG group over there will link up to
it but basically like you can run tests
in a scientific way make it repeatable
do all that stuff and you know my
position has been consistent that links
are helpful you should like move forward
with links but yeah in the I guess the
way you explained your particular link
it may or may not have helped like any
specific given link may or may not help
but pretty sure like over time and if
you go just do research in the wild in a
you know uncontrolled environment you
see generally sites with more links
they're doing better and there's a
chicken or the egg situation happening
too but yeah I I mean links help so and
I'll just I mean are you of the I guess
strategy to just not worry about links
or are you like hey you should have an
active approach with link building
outreach and so forth I think that I
probably run the middle on that I agree
with you I think that links are a
powerful signal to all of the all of the
world out there that content should be
in a particular place or not I don't
actively spend a lot of time hunting
down links just because I feel like for
this ad revenue situation where it's
like a Content push like the more
content you have out there the more
traffic you want to get and for me the
return at this point at least with this
particular case study as better spent
putting out more content because it
could take a whole day sometimes you go
and you try to hunt down a guest post
and then you know get to the content
written for them and then go back and
forth on the edits and the rest and I
have tried this like going out and you
know looking for sites in the same niche
and then emailing them or filling out
they're right for us page and then
you know just getting sharing nothing
back right they don't even respond to
you or they respond to you and say
you're not interested or you know you
need to pass a whole bunch of money and
I'm like I could have cranked out three
articles for this and so I think when I
for me as far as backlinking now I'm
thinking more about natural links rather
than going out and buying them or
finding them so thinking of content that
people would just want to link to you
know not necessarily long-form content
but things that would be cool to link to
like somebody would see it on Pinterest
and say hey I would want to link to that
like I think printables for example are
something that are really underserved on
a lot of websites if people don't even
think of they think of infographics
right that have that somebody will want
to put on their page but printables
these resources that people could print
out and hang up on their walls or use as
like checklists it seemed like they
would be useful in any niche like you
had an outdoor site you could do a
printable checklist for packing for
camping packing for mountaineering
packing for or whatever and that's
something that people would want to save
I thought that's really interesting I
would like to come back to that or it
would be you know wanting to share that
on my own website because I don't feel
like creating it myself things that
people for kids like if you have any
sort of website that involves children
or families like things that you can
print out for kids to do things that
they have the lines that people could
fold up things that you could color
things that you could post on the wall
like those are simple things that you
wouldn't necessarily have to buy like
have somebody create like you could go
on canva and use their their fonts right
the block fonts and create things that
kids could color or you could draw them
like if you have any sort of skill
whatsoever the parents is I'm a parent
right so this is something that I'm
constantly already hunting for myself
like things that just are neat for the
kids to color in that maybe are unusual
that are science-based that are just
you're not going to find anywhere else
and it doesn't take a lot of money so I
think okay I could spend $500 on a a da
you know domain authority of a bajillion
right or I could probably spend
couple dollars you know with fiber
outsource that or even sit and just do
it myself and create 20 of these and
then maybe get links from some of these
really high authority blogs that that
could use them so so am i actively going
out and buying links I'm not because I
don't want to spend a whole lot of big
money on my site until it is earning
right maybe once I you know let's say
I'm pulling in 50 grand a month like
sure I'll go and spend money and that's
worse than the rest but for now I'm
super conservative on spending money I
saw your interview with Ron Stefanski
peski about his blog that he created
kind of on the same timeline that I did
he said that he had dropped what fifteen
thousand dollars on it and I think my
job I'm just like fell off right because
we're not actually that far away from
the number of page views or whatever I
think - like six hundred and seven
months and he's at eight hundred pages a
month and you guys talk about time and
money like exchanging time for money you
have one or the other whatever I have
invested my time isn't invested his
money but like man fifteen grand like
holy cow yeah and it's yeah it's easy to
let it get away and couple things so
good points on creating sort of like
natural assets that are linkable that
people actually want to link to and
quick clarification I don't necessarily
like say that you should go buy links or
you can do that if you have the budget
like Ron or someone else who has the
budget but if you naturally do it
through like relationship building then
usually you can get good links and then
you're part of a network and that is a
much better way to do it and I think a
lot of people fall into the trap of hey
you know I hear I need to get links I'll
go to Fiverr and I'll get some guest
posts for 15 bucks apiece and then they
end up like maybe it works for like a
little while and they get more traffic
and then they'll get penalized or
they'll run into some issue so okay cool
well I wanted to say though
just my sort of YouTube community I
talked to a lot of people who are right
around where I am right there in the
first year of a new site and they maybe
are following other other methods right
I like the project 24 guys like I really
like their stuff and I respect the hell
out of them and they're you know a lot
of their students are coming to me and
we talk about links just offline or like
on Facebook and say hey you know what um
you know do you need a backlink like you
know we have a similar niche and you
know we'll just try to work something
out not reciprocal it's just like I want
to help you right and they're like I
can't do backlinks I'm not going to do
that my site will just explode like
they're literally afraid to do any link
building whatsoever because they think
that doing it will automatically take
their site and I think there are a lot
of people out there just because maybe
some of the strong approaches that other
people are taking about how links are
bad and how links are going to move your
site because Google is gonna update you
and destroy you and you've seen all
these horror stories about Saint sites
just tanking because of you know
probably bad backlink practices I mean
they're just afraid like they said no no
thank you so very much but I don't want
your link which to me it's like okay
like there's got to be some balance I
don't see how a website could grow
without at least some links I mean you
gotta have something and just
anecdotally how's the traffic on those
sites are they like hey we're doing
pretty good no links not yet this
growing really really slow really really
slow shocking right I mean like I don't
know there's a lot of Dogma like in one
direction to the other and some people
are like hey I'll get links however I
need to get them I'll pay for them I'll
do whatever and then on the other side
it's like hey don't ever do it and I
mean from the standpoint of like purely
a natural like piece of content or a
fully like natural blog where someone's
writing just whatever they want to write
about and they get because I've actually
been bumping into people in the like
personal finance space and a lot of them
do just write about like whatever they
want to write about that's helpful
without regard to keyword research link
building and they don't even care
they're doing fine so there's there's
many ways to to do it but I think the
networking piece always network that's a
good thing to do
so well you know from my site personally
I didn't pursue or really get any links
in the first like natural links even in
the first five or six months so you know
at six months I was seeing traffic of a
couple thousand page views a month by
then so I think it can be done honestly
I do think it can be done I do think you
can get out of the sandbox and get going
without that but it has to be super low
competition like the lowest competition
possible type keywords because if you
have anyone that has any more authority
than you they're going to take that
keyword from you they're gonna take the
number one two three spot from you and
you just completely summarize like the
point of like why one should do some
link building or at least network cuz
like if you are friends with people and
you do put out a good piece of content
they may link link to your site so okay
we're moving on to let's see one of your
other case studies I know you have a
couple things that in the last year I
have published on as far as things I'm
trying out was one was this particular
case study based upon find John
Dijkstra's blogging course and then last
year around the time that I burned out
on my case study I was like okay I have
money burning a hole in my pocket I want
to try buying site right I want to see
what it's like to try and jump over you
know the first two years of building a
site by something that is already
earning what does that process look like
you know is it you go to these you go to
Empire flippers or FB International and
you know they've got these sites that
are they just look wonderful right they
like they're they're established sites
and the brokers they do all this vetting
for you and it's supposed to be so much
more trustworthy than going to someplace
like flipper which is full of crap and
scammers and so you know what is that
process like and I never bought a site
and I'm not technical at all right so
you know the like migration and yeah I
just kind of
looking down the road and saying okay if
this case study is something that I have
that eventually I may want to sell you
know what does this process look like
I've always been on the mind until you
can do something really well like you
can't hire someone else to do it because
you can't manage them so I say okay one
day I want to sell this site and maybe
I'll have a broker help me do it or
maybe I'll have a tech person help me
migrate it but until I've learned a bit
about how to do it then how will I know
they're not taking me for ride how will
I know that these are fees are
worthwhile or not and so I thought all
right I'm gonna invest I just spent a
hundred and fifty thousand dollars on
law school when I was a kid why not
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