come its Doug Pennington here this is
the Doug show live today we're gonna
talk about a few different things we're
gonna talk about some random stuff that
I've been up to it's very cold here in
the boulder area or at least it has been
for the last week or so I always talk
about the weather but it's supposed to
be warm it's supposed to people home at
least for today and then I'm gonna
mention a speaking thing that I'm doing
soon talked about that some for the
longtime viewers and listeners you may
remember that I have teased that for a
little while Justin what's going on good
to see you give me a shout in the chat
if you are actually just give me a shout
in the chat say hello let me know where
you're from and all that and I'm also
gonna talk about productivity and sleep
I'm gonna show some highlights coming
out and then like I said just some other
random stuff like some general marketing
kind of stuff quick little story I I
keep my email list pretty clean for a
niche site project and basically that
means if people open the emails I will
delete them from the list I know a lot
of people will try to re-engage folks
that are not opening emails or paying
attention or whatever and I've tried
that but I found it to be like a super
low response rate so basically I was
like you know I think I'm if people are
not opening the emails it's probably
going either to spam or a place where
they're they're not looking for it
anymore
or they're not interested in or they are
just delete them so I keep a pretty
clean email list and usually have open
rates in the mid 20s to high high 20s so
that's pretty good and I mean for
earlier in my digital marketing career I
didn't keep the email list very clean
and basically what happened was I had
like open rates that were like under 10%
so super low anyway I keep it clean now
keep it tight and then you end up with
much higher open rates anyway I sent out
an email on Monday that ended up getting
like roughly 40% less than a normal open
and I think it ended up in a different
tab or somewhere different where people
don't open him in fact the reason why I
thought of it is because someone emailed
me about it so they're like hey I like
your emails I always open them but this
one ended up in a different tab for
Gmail I do not know why it could have
been some of the content in the subject
line it could have been the content in
the email I have no clue but for
whatever reason it didn't go to a place
where people opened it much so hopefully
hopefully Google is not shifting my
emails around because I had a what
seemed to be a pretty darn good open
rate okay moving on we see McHugh what's
up Ahmad good to have you on so usually
we'll cover a couple topics that I want
to go over today and then we'll get into
a few Q&A from the crowd if there's some
good ones I know sometimes we had some
fairly basic questions that there's a
better resource than just me like
verbatim 'he's restating something so if
you're in a niche site project comm /faq
if you've never visited that page
there's many frequently asked questions
you should definitely check it out even
if you don't have any questions right
this second if you go look there you'll
you will probably think of other
questions and it's always nice to see
what other people are thinking about
that have a different perspective than
you so check out the frequently asked
questions all right I think looks like
we only have a few people but you know
it's only I started right right at the
top of the hour but I'm just gonna press
on I expect everyone can hear me right
Justin with you
Maude can you guys hear me okay
like it I selected the proper microphone
so alright so I've been super busy doing
a lot of interviews lately and basically
it's really fun to do the interviews you
just get to chat with some people learn
about them and ask questions that you
know maybe you don't get to ask all the
time so to that no the interview that I
was trying to you know spread the word
on earlier this week is the interview
with Carl Jensen and basically he
retired when he was 43 he's 46 now and
he retired and basically under 1,500
days super nice guy lives in the like
local area so I've hung out with him a
couple times had a beer and basically we
were able to sit down and talk for like
an hour very interesting conversation it
was a lot of fun I had you know ten
other questions ten other angles that I
could have talked to Carl about but in
the interest of time I just kept it to
about an hour but hopefully we can get
them on to you know answer some more
questions in the future
so anyway I'm gonna play a clip from
Carl here and I encourage people to
check it out and actually I may pause
for a second because I think and the
notification email went out we jumped to
a lot more subscriber viewers here so
like I said I interviewed Carl very
interesting conversation and for the for
the people that are not familiar with
the financial independence I guess sort
of a movement or at least there's a
interest in that topic area it's sort of
a subset of personal finance where
people are like hey we want to save
money and watch our expenses and just do
normal budget I think it's very easy to
not do that
especially if you have you know a job
where you're making enough money to
cover your expenses and you have some
extra and you may find yourself like
buying extra stuff that is basically
what I did like after I got to get a job
out of college I
what things cuz my my friends were
buying things I bought a house I
upgraded my car I did all the normal
stuff as I was like kind of paying down
debt but not really and the financial
independence or five movement is
generally around you know watching your
expenses you don't have to be like super
frugal or anything I'm not excessively
frugal there are certain areas where I
don't care much like my car so I don't
spend a lot on the car and basically now
get to some questions here in a second
but basically I don't spend a lot of my
car but I really enjoy beer and food and
I guess like spirits right so not just
not just beer but alcohol in general you
know like I will spend a lot of money on
certain areas while I you know I don't
care about certain things so I'm not
going to even like go down the route of
getting a super expensive car because at
this point I'm not super interested okay
and I see a few people said hello and
I'm just going to hop in alright so Chad
you're asking about keywords go to niche
site project comm /faq basically you're
asking how many keywords to put into an
article it depends on how you're writing
the content you can just target one
keyword or you could target many but it
depends on what you're trying to do and
someone asks if the kids are still works
yes it does there's like five new
success stories on the channel from like
the last six weeks so go check those out
Amano come back to your question and
Tosh what's up
okay so mixed you I'm talking about Carl
Jenson and McHugh says he never explains
how he saved the money to get to a
million did he just save a lot how did
he do it he never explained how to save
that much was he super frugal no kind of
like I just mentioned he basically like
there were certain things that he was
interested in spending money on that are
important you know healthy food and that
sort of thing but there are some things
like we talked about our car
specifically I don't have like a super
nice new car he doesn't either but we
have car
that serve the utility that we need him
to do and we enjoy them we have enjoyed
them and we bought them maybe when we
were actually like spending more money
but at this like he bought the car that
he drives brand-new and he probably
wouldn't do that again he mentions that
in the interview but basically you know
you pick and choose what you want to
spend money on and when did the big
thing so I think Carl and I are similar
and as you talk to more people you find
that a lot of people when they're around
our age so Carl is like 40 he's 46 now
I'm 40 but basically as soon as we got
jobs we started putting money into our
401ks and investing nothing crazy but
when you're 22 and you start putting in
your 401k like 20 years is a long time
we went through to sort of like
downturns and recessions like fairly
significant ones in like you just end up
saving money so make you I don't know
how old you are but basically if you're
in your 20s there's like no reason like
you can't be a millionaire by the time
you're like 40 like I make it sound
super easy and maybe I'm disconnected it
depends on where you live and how much
money and blah blah blah but there are
so many examples as I'm exploring this
world of personal finance and stuff and
and basically like if you start in your
20s like you would have to seriously
like screw up to not accumulate a lot of
money so I could be disconnected because
that's just what I did but and that
happened to be what Carl did as well so
when he was 37 he he was like how do I
retire early
he found that you know you can
understand your expenses save a little
bit more and then maybe like reorient
what you're trying to do so that you're
not spending money on things that aren't
actually making you happy and then as
you're saving more it accumulates and
really I think the math like if you save
and this is a huge amount but if you
save I think it's like 60 some-odd
percent of your income you should be
able to retire in about 10 years
all right so if you just do the math and
you understand the 4% rule I refer to
the full interview so you can get a
little more detail and David said it's
more difficult when you have kids 100%
Karl has two kids and they were already
around when he went down the path to try
and retire so yes David hundred percent
and as I am looking at my finances and
compared to potentially like my siblings
and stuff like that where my my siblings
have kids I'm like holy cow that's
amazingly expensive to have children but
people like them so but yes definitely
more difficult and if you're thinking
hey I'm gonna try to pay for the my
children's college which I mean I don't
have kids so I don't have any skin in
the game but I mean me paying for my own
college like 100 percent myself versus
people that I know that had their
college paid for I tried way harder like
if you're throwing down the cash and I
worked through college - so it took me
longer to go through it took like six
and a half years where you know some of
my friends made it on like three and a
half or four they're also smarter than
me but yes David a hundred percent way
more difficult if you have kids however
there are examples and they're like
endless examples of people with like
lots of kids any situation you could
think of any situation but yeah it is
totally doable and it's all about like
where where you're putting your your
effort and time and if it's like a high
priority and even if you can't do it in
ten years I mean if you if you could do
it before you know fifty nine and a half
that's that's pretty good and for me I
know it was probably I know I was
probably like six seven years ago I
realized oh wow I can't get to any of
that 401k or retirement
and money without penalty I know you
could always get to the money until
you're 59 and a half so basically if
you're if you think you having to retire
early you probably should invest in with
what we call like taxable accounts so
it's like after taxes I invest it and
then it's not it's not locked down under
penalty like your retirement funds like
a 401 K Roth IRA or otherwise so anyway
make sure you does that help or is that
kind of a is that a answer for
me where I'm like you just save it but
really like over time like if you're
putting away money like over time it
will the compound interest is just
fantastic and we talked just a tiny a
bit about like index funds but basically
most of the people are just investing in
like a total market index fund primarily
people mix it up depending on whether
they're closer to retirement or what
they're trying to do maybe they like
more international stuff but basically
it's index funds whether it's like an SP
500 style or like a broader range
consult your your financial expert or
accountants or whoever but yeah it makes
you like I said if you're I don't know
how old you are but if if you're in your
twenties like just start saving like
save as much as you can and I remember
when I was in my 20s I can't remember
anybody know when Roth IRAs first came
out I feel like they were sorted they
were pretty new like right when I was
able to start actually saving some money
but I remember the financial advisor
that I went to which I don't know I'm
probably not gonna be I mean I ended my
relationship with that financial adviser
I guess the point is he was like you
should max out your Roth why you can at
some point you're gonna make too much
money and at that point in time I was
like ah I can't imagine like I'm only
making like 55 or something
like that and basically I was like sure
whatever but sure enough it was like
four or five years and I ended up like
making too much money and then you can't
contribute to a Roth IRA anymore
alright see some questions over here and
then I'm gonna play the clip so thanks
I'm glad some people are hopping on here
and hi either these shows are a really
bad time I'm really boring or something
weird is going on because I was checking
out Alex Cooper over at WP eagle and he
crushes it for his live streams his are
a little bit later in the day maybe I
should tamp tie mine around his but yeah
like 75 people and we we have 20 fine
people here but I guess I guess I'm more
boring or something like that could be
alright so makes you good questions and
hopefully you know I encourage you to
check out Karl's blog he tracks his net
worth from the beginning of his journey
so like I said within four years he he
was like in good shape
alright I'm gonna come back to some
questions I'm gonna see if there's any
that are relevant here and then I'm
gonna play a clip from Carl since we
were talking about him for a bit Derek
what's up we got Marek Justin yes you
got a question there so we'll I'll take
a look at that as I'm playing the clip
and Banga keeps asking about these power
tools and you're asking should you go
for it if you're a beginner or sub-niche
like garden tools really doesn't matter
you could do either one I would
recommend you start smaller and just
quick tip people that are asking
questions I'll come to them at the end
if they're totally irrelevant
it won't help you to keep posting them
all right you don't have to keep posting
them there's not that many people in
here so I'll get to your questions I'll
get to your questions but yeah no need
to to spam and just keep putting the
same thing in there alright
okay let's get to that clip with Carl
here and let me find the one where we
are talking about retirement and income
levels here so let's let's hear from
Carl Jenson yeah sure and I don't mind
sharing my age I am will work backwards
I am 46 now I just turned 46 I stopped
formally working at the age of 43 and I
got this whole idea when I was 37 and I
remember it was October of 2012 and I
was in software like we talked about and
for the most part it was a good job but
this particular job was writing code for
a medical device so in previously I had
worked in industries like insurance or
point-of-sale systems where if you mess
up the code you might quote someone the
wrong price for an insurance policy or
you might charge someone the wrong taxes
for a purchase but in this case if I
screwed up the code I can potentially
cause serious harm or kill someone so
that was bad for two reasons and the
number one reason was just the stress
you always had this kind of dark cloud
over your head thinking it's not like a
job where you're a pilot where as soon
as you go home the stress is done you've
done your job but this I could have
potentially introduced a bug in the code
five years ago that could harm someone
that I just that's been hidden all this
time and took a weird situation to come
up but the other reason was I didn't do
a whole lot of coding it was mostly
writing documentation for the FDA
dealing with audits so I'm sure you were
a software guy like I love the code
writing part of the job that part was
really fun and cool trying to solve the
puzzles but everything that went along
with it was not good but and I had this
job for a while but at one point in
October 2012 we thought there was a bug
in the code and I thought I caused it
and it was a bug that could have
potentially harm someone it turned out
that there wasn't there was an error in
the testing and it wasn't so I didn't do
anything wrong but for that week my
stress was so overwhelming I think I
lost like 10 pounds in a week and I
remember being huddled over the toilet I
think I was
throw up from the stress because I
thought my co-workers down I could have
potentially hurt someone and well none
of that was true the stress was
overwhelming and the thought I had at
the time was if I do this for the next
25 years I'm gonna be dead I'm gonna die
of stress I'm gonna have like high
hypertension or heart attack or
something like that so I googled how do
I retire early and up came these bugs
like JD Roth from Get Rid slowly and
mister money mustache whose co-working
space were sitting in right now life has
come full circle
and I started reading these blogs and it
was about these two guys who claimed
they had retired in their 30s and the
first thought I had was okay I have
I landed on this this must be some kind
of scam where they're gonna try to sell
me some multi-level marketing thing like
when is the sales pitch coming but I
started reading through the blog
especially mister money mustache who
went into a lot of numbers like the 4%
rule and the math behind earlier
retirement and then I'm like well I
don't want to live off twenty twenty
four thousand dollars a year like Pete
does that's too little but this is
pretty much just a simple math problem
so at that time I did not have enough
money to retire but thankfully I had
always been a saver and there's a story
behind that too we'd always been pretty
frugal that was probably the craziest
time of our life or we weren't being
frugal so we pretty much pivoted we sold
our house we moved to a much cheaper
home and I set out a plan to retire I
figured it would take me about four
years or fifteen hundred days and I had
always enjoyed writing so I thought why
don't I document this journey on the
internet it'll keep me honest and it'll
be fun yeah that happened and I made my
number about a year earlier than I
planned not due to any genius on my own
part but due to a great stock market but
uh that's it now I quit and let's see I
don't even remember when I quit yeah I
was twenty thirteen but I made my goal
in twenty twelve so the money is easy
the emotions not easy but simple the
emotions that go around and are a little
bit more difficult congratulations and
awesome story and thank you for the
people that are wondering out there
you you do have a blog we will get into
numbers what you're making from the blog
and a lot of the details since that's
what a lot of my audience is used to
sure but I am super fascinated with like
the emotional part it's a simple math
problem right like when you get down to
it it's a simple math problem so can you
just hit at a high level the 4% rule and
then I'll provide some links you have
some excellent blog post where you
outline it a little bit more detailed
but yeah what was the bottom line
yeah so there's a lot of moving parts to
the 4% rule but in a real high level
what it says is once you've accumulated
enough money to live on four percent of
it your first year and then after that
it adjusts for inflation but so for
example my number was I need $40,000 a
year to live on therefore I would need 1
million dollars to retire after that it
gets ratcheted up for inflation but that
is the very basics of the 4% rule so I
accumulated my 1 million dollars in
April 2012 I think ok and for people
that want to go deeper you documented
this whole process on your blog you list
your net worth you have you know the
benchmarks that you hit and I'm I'm
curious cuz it's funny to talk about
money and certainly stress sure Israel's
taboo subject right and even you know
around here a lot of us have maybe like
sort of a freer schedule where
like-minded folks but even then it's
like slightly awkward because we're
talking about money and it's just taboo
so did you get pushed back from like
family or friends or anything like that
yeah I I was anonymous and eventually a
story went viral and everyone found out
what it was and then it got kind of
weird but the thing I thought is money
is so taboo then I saw back up a second
one the story went public our pictures
showed up on the front page a yahoo and
my initial reaction was like oh and
I was still working at the time I'm like
but then I'm like no one reads Yahoo
News like who reads that anymore
but then it turns out everyone reads
through Yahoo News we started getting
all these text messages like 10 minutes
later saying hey you
yeah ooh you've got a million dollars
like holy why don't you tell us
about any of this and like freaking out
I'm like oh my God my job's gonna find
out but then I thought maybe this will
be good the whole reason I I've been so
open with money is my goal is to kind of
bring it out into the open because if we
all talked about it I think we'd be a
lot healthier we could start helping
each other out and not trying to hide
behind expensive cars to disguise our
insecurities and everything that goes
along with not having money so I thought
it would be a good exercise to be public
with it and it turned out we haven't
helped I've helped people but no close
people no friends or family really I
found they don't care or they just feel
weird about asking about it but I get
random I getting random emails from
strangers on the internet and mail which
is kind of weird asking me for money and
I won't give you money but I will give
you help and no one wants to take me up
on that they just want the easy answer
so I'd rather teach them to fish then
give them the fish but what was your
original question I think I went way off
on a tangent yeah that that's perfect it
was about just talking about money and
being public yes you know I've got one
other crazy story about that when I was
about 12 or 13 I money is always
fascinated to me and kind of because I
didn't grow up with it so I yeah there
was a lot of insecurity in some scary
moments as a kid where my dad would be
laid off so when I was 12 or 13 I went
to my mom I'm like hey mom how much
money does dad make and the whole reason
I wanted to know this was I was just
curious I wanted to know how much I
needed to make as an adult and I was
curious about what they did with their
money and then my mom gets this look on
her face she's like that is private you
cannot ask those questions
you better not inside again and she got
all mad about like oh okay so then Plan
B was to sneak down to the file cabinet
in the basement and look at their
paycheck stubs which I did and I
eventually found out that way but then
the funny thing was a couple months
after that my mom was like hey come
downstairs we need to have a
conversation I'm like okay mom what's
going on I'm kind of scared she's like
let's talk about the birds and the bees
like hey mom I found out about all this
stuff through the kid on the playground
I know what to do I know how to be safe
so I'm just gonna go back outside and
play I promise I'll be I'll be good with
that stuff
so my mom was okay talking to me about
sex but not about money and I'm the
exact opposite with my kids and perv on
my pee because I have two girls I'm like
Oh or younger what it's like well how do
babies get made well mom and dad love
each other and then a baby is there but
how does it get there am i is that can
happen to me I'm like I went off on a
big tangent there but it's funny all
right that was Carl giving us a little
sex education there I didn't ask about
that specifically but Carl found a way
to work that in which is cool keeps it
light keeps it light we got some good
questions that popped in and by the way
people if you didn't catch that full
interview it's a very good one but I
will also be publishing the smaller
segments and and I I noticed today or
actually this week that Tim Ferriss is
on his YouTube channel he's publishing
like log interviews like he has been but
he's also doing the shorter segments
chopping it up and hopefully I can do it
in a way that doesn't annoy people we
published a ton of stuff on the channel
cuz there's podcast interviews or
podcast episodes that I republish on
here there are interviews there are
tutorials and if I publish the clips too
it's you know more than one video per
day just in general there's so much
content and I do know that the highlight
reels bring bring people to have an
opinion so either they hate the clips or
they love the clips so I think I have to
lean into and identify with the people
that love it because those people are
basically like enjoying it they're
watching it I can see the views and I
can see there are at least a few hundred
people that are totally watching the
videos so I know
shorter ones are good and it's hard to
commit for you know an hour and ten
minute interview but it's much easier to
watch an eight minute clip you know so
I'm gonna be experimenting with that and
you know I tested it last fall and it's
kind of hard to test things at scale
when there are so many variables so I
kind of have to look at the aggregate
data and figure out like okay was that
did that seem like it was better was it
actually better do the numbers reflect
it and then what happens when I stop can
I clearly see views and watch time go up
or down and it looks like the data says
that people at least the the true the
true fans that give a they watch
and for the people that don't want to
watch all the clips that is okay you can
just not watch them all right so we got
some cool questions coming in but I'm
gonna try to actually share my screen
here I'm gonna see if I can do this
without screwing everything up here
because I have a bit of an announcement
I'll talk about it a lot more but just
wanted to share something with ya all
right I think you can see this window
okay perfect so pub telogen sigh think
I'm pronouncing that right it's gonna be
April 3rd in New York City at Google and
it's put on by my friends at ease oh ik
+ YZ o ik is a partial sponsor for the
Doug show live here so I want to thank
them there is a link in the description
so that you can go check out some things
they are they help you basically make
more money on your website but generally
the same amount of traffic through
intelligent testing and generally just
doing a better job showing the visitors
what they want to see in showing ads in
a you know systematic kind of way I'm
speaking there so that is why I'm
telling you about this this is a free
event by the way so you do have to be
accepted but it used to be invite only
event and at this point you can apply
and it's a single day it's Friday April
3rd
and basically you can get more details
here there's a link in the description
like I said it's free so do you have to
pay to attend the answer is no it's put
on by Google and E's oeq and they're not
sponsored or they're they're organizers
they're not sponsors and basically you
get food you get the happy hour you get
to see the speakers and there's some
other details here I'm not gonna just
read the website but it was pretty cool
so I'm listed here with some big big
players got Tyler Bishop the CMO over it
you zoic super smart guy Barry Schwartz
Search Engine Roundtable we have the CD
Oh from Hearst publishing and that me
somehow I weaseled my way into this
situation and I don't have my speech
locked down or even the topic but they
gave me a couple suggestions and they
kind of just let me like talk about
whatever I want so this is gonna be big
I'm kind of freaking out it's about 50
days away and there's gonna be a
reasonable-sized crowd and then Tyler I
don't know how to pronounce his last
name been a dictum Benedicta m-- and it
looks like he's the founder over at bike
rumor which sounds like an interesting
contact and make because this site
apparently is badass and it was launched
in July of 2018 so anyway this is pretty
cool this is my first official speaking
situation and I've been talking about it
and sort of teasing that I wanted to try
and do it and I never did I mean I have
been studying like talks but I never
like put myself out or mentioned that I
do and he's speaking or anything but
since I've been doing some work with
these oeq they were kind enough to
invite me and I was like I gotta do it
it's in it's at a Google office and it's
a good good company and it's my kind of
crew you know digital
publishers so they will be interested in
what I'm talking about
thanks Josh you mentioned it's pretty
cool and it's a good opportunity thanks
a lot so I'm gonna hit some questions
now before we talk about some of the
other things other topics that I wanted
to cover today so I know that Dwight was
asking about kgr packages so key word
golden ratio Dwight says that you have
ordered some packages and a couple are
starting to hit but you haven't done any
link building and many are doing well
with YouTube videos so Dwight if the kg
are packages that your you have
purchased if they seem to be working out
for you and you have the budget for it
then go for it if you don't have the
budget or it's a little bit of a stretch
or maybe you want to you know try some
on your own then I encourage you to you
know maybe mix in some of your own
keyword research I think it's a great
skill to have one of the cool things
when you get into internet marketing
niche sites or affiliate marketing or
any subset that's within the digital
marketing area like you're learning
skills like you're learning how to do
keyword research so you could totally
outsource it but there's definitely
value in understanding how to do the
mechanics even if you don't always do
that at the end of the day if you're
stacking these skills a lot of people
talk about stacking skills cuz I'm I'm
an okay project manager I'm gonna okay
coder I mean okay I guess email
copywriter and I'm okay keyword research
I'm not super exceptional in any one
area but the combination of those things
is kind of unique so I can get by being
adequate at best in most areas and then
everything else makes up for it so you
kind of can plug some holes where you
have like gaps and your skill set and if
you if you could learn how to do keyword
research or if you already know how to
do it then that's cool if you have the
budget and you just
like doing it that's fine too but if
they're working out fine and you have
the budget for it then I think that's
fine too Pei Pei company to do that
legwork for you
all right and let me see if I missed any
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