hey what's going on welcome to the Doug
show
I interviewed Joe and Mike they're
brothers and they blog and create
content over at build assets online they
kind of specialize in the drop shipping
area which we get into I would say a
lightly heated discussion no it wasn't
an argument it was all friendly
everything's cool but we talked about
affiliate marketing versus drop shipping
again they they sort of specialize in
drop shipping that's where they have a
lot of experience but the cool thing is
they have around 10 different businesses
all online businesses where they are
building a portfolio and they are
documenting all this stuff now the cool
thing is Mike and Joe have a free course
which you could check out it is a like a
playbook right so it gives you a lot of
information definitely recommend you
checking it out and it's free right so
that part of the course is free and I am
an affiliate for their actual premium
course which is out there but that is
totally up to you but I just wanted to
mention it here so with that said we
have a great discussion about how they
got started how they started their
portfolio and what they're doing now how
plans for the future and that sort of
thing so let's hear from Mike and Joe
hey what's going on it's Doug Pennington
here and I'm with Mike and Joe from
build assets online did I get it right
yes all right perfect so for the people
that don't know you much like myself I
actually don't know you guys that well
can you give a little bit of an intro
and just what do you guys do over it
build assets online so Mike Mike and I
are focused on kind of just what the
name sounds like is creating a
profitable portfolio of online assets
sorry to use the definition to get to
define the thing but basically at the
core of what we do we start with ty take
it drop shipping which is still the core
of our our business today and we use the
cash flow from that to invest in other
profitable but
based businesses and the reason that we
start with a high-ticket dropshipping is
because what we've found is that the
cash flow from it is much faster than
other than other business models you can
kind of get it going get it started in
two weeks if you like really apply
yourself and then and then scale it from
business models are still great and they
still have like high multiples and
they're you know extremely passive in
great businesses and we'll use that to
invest in those and and grow the
portfolio guide and Mike I'll direct
this question you I'll try and do a
little orchestrating here give you some
time here so like you guys are brothers
is that the situation okay yeah so your
brothers and like what did you do before
you were doing drop shipping and stuff
like that so Joe had gotten food science
degree he was working you know just
doing stuff with that I had a chemical
engineering degree and I was doing stuff
for military contractors but Joe had
started doing retail arbitrage so
essentially just going to you know
big-box stores going to the clearance
aisle and then reselling stuff on Amazon
and you know get quiz job maybe in 2013
or so and yeah I mean I wasn't really
happy at my job that kind of wanted to
get a taste so you know he didn't want
me to do the same thing because Amazon
kind of has its restrictions and so I
went down the route of Kindle publishing
I found you know a coaching program with
that and just started doing it and then
within probably three or four months um
I quit my job and yeah then things kind
of got went awry with Kindle I mean both
doing it and that's essentially what
forced us to start our drop shipping
business okay sorry you said what will
happen with Kendall so basically back in
the day it was kind of like the old
niche sites with Google how everyone
kind of got slammed by the update
that's essentially what happened to us
Kindle was a bit deaf
and you know the way our books were
structured and kind of way people did
things or was a bit more great hat and
so one day my account got suspended as I
was about to quit my job and you know I
lost like two months of proper royalties
and they pay you two months later and
yeah so we were kind of out of options
and he had just bought a house so we
needed to do something quick and that's
kind of when we made our first drop
shipping store and that yeah again we
went from zero to first sale within two
weeks I was also pretty heavily invested
in Kindle at that point cuz he was doing
well with it and I kind of moved away
from the retail arbitrage did the Kindle
was I just the potential that was so
much higher and you're so I thought at
the time and so he were both like most
of our income coming from Kindle and
then he literally quit his job
and Frank the day before it happened or
on that day and I had like signed the
final contracts on a house like the week
before and I didn't have a job so yeah
we really have had to be like alright
let's uh let's get this big we gotta get
something figured out quick yeah and
that was really kind of a defining
moment for what has become or overall
business strategy because it taught us
that you know while Amazon brings really
good income it's you know a very risky
platform to have all your money invested
in and yeah so now we kind of just we
teach having overall well-rounded
portfolio and we still do Kindle now so
it still works good and you know we've
had some bestsellers and but yeah the
main point is that drop shipping is the
best way to get money quick and get an
asset that you can sell and then
everything else complements it and their
own ways got it got it and can you give
me an idea of like what you guys were
pulling in before the issues and the
Kindle publishing business side yeah I
think I was on pace to make like
probably twelve thousand to fifteen
thousand dollars profit like vertical
yeah yeah when that happened and yeah so
that got kind of
but now we're now we're back on a good
pace I think we're closing in on like
five to six thousand dollars profit each
month and you know I'm I'm pretty like
I'm pretty involved in that community I
know some big uh some big Kindle people
and they make a lot of money and you
know there's still a lot of money to be
made in Kindle but some more mature yeah
also heard of a big some really big
publishers losing that yeah that's true
too yeah we've known top 100 authors who
I've just God their accounts taken down
and you know there's really no recourse
with Kindle um once you've once it's
taken down unless a miracle happens you
are you're out of luck Wow oh and what
issue would a person have liked in the
top 100 like what with violation would
they make to get kicked out honestly a
lot of it comes from other independent
writers who are a bit bitter that you
you know you use ghost writers and stuff
like that and they'll just like spam
report you and do things like that and
you know as you as you may know Amazon
their customer service especially for
their sellers is not the best so it's
like if someone chooses to you know
strike down your account getting it back
is usually quite a hassle good alright
yeah cool well super interesting you
guys were getting started around the
same time as me and I do remember
hearing all these amazing Kindle
publishing stories and I was like hi I
should check it out but luckily I didn't
get too distracted and actually try but
yeah I remember hearing like just crazy
stories you know really quick to ramp up
and once you got a system set it's just
like churn it out right yeah and it's
still awesome I mean the the churn rate
is less now it's more really focused on
creating a high quality brand and you
know in the future when we come out with
you know our our strategies on Kindle I
think you'll you'll find that it all
actually actually works together with
the niche site stuff and yeah if there's
a lot you can do with it and it is still
a real
a really good asset class because it
just if you let it just do nothing it
would it makes money every month like I
probably put five hours a month in to
Kindle her you know good profits oh yeah
all right cool and Joe were you about to
say something there
no I mean I think he kind of touched on
it that we're really putting our efforts
into now kind of combining business
models like combining like the niche
site with the Kindle publishing and you
know building building the email list
that way using Facebook and it's build
the email list which is then great for
the Google traffic could they see that
you already have traffic so we're really
a lot of our R&D and efforts is focused
on to doing that stuff and it's all we
can be gonna do it we can afford it
because we have the the drop shipping
stores which which is which is great
very cool so and take me let's go down
that route now so you both were doing
really well with the Kindle publishing
and then you lost that revenue source
100 either a hundred percent or enough
of it where it was catastrophic right so
you had to move into some other stuff so
how did you determine what you were
gonna do next how did you deal with that
stress you just bought a house and all
that stuff so Joe why don't you kick it
off and then let's see where it goes
here well I think we knew we wanted to
do online I mean at that point like I
was moving to kind of the middle of
nowhere I moved back to New Jersey since
then but um we kind of realized that
like I really didn't have another choice
like he wasn't going to go back to work
and whatever I think we actually bought
like we bought two or three courses on
e-commerce and and drop shipping like we
would always buy courses like to this
day like we still we still buy stuff I
mean I'm sure I'm sure you do as well
even but you know it's just it's just
about like being able to assess all the
information pulling even if even if you
deem a course to be like a waste of
money just pulling like one or two
things like we've you know we've had
things that
we've been taught like years before and
then one day they just oh remember that
and then it kind of impact it can impact
your business in the future so a lot of
it is just I mean invest we have we have
like we're doing good with Kindle before
that so it's just investing in knowledge
doing research and and yeah more than
more than anything I think it was just
putting in you know the effort and the
time yeah that was of course that's the
other thing I mean a lot of people as
I'm sure you know will that's all
they'll do is their research what we
like to do is we'll spend like an
allotted amount of time on research and
then then it's all it's all actions and
it's it's all in and it either works or
it doesn't
but what we found is that even if it
doesn't work like a hundred percent it
still kind of sets you up to tweak
things in in the future and you make a
little change down the line and it's
something successful so and if I can if
I can add on that I think that's the
reason why high ticket dropshipping is
so powerful that's because you don't
need to have you know a hundred percent
of the knowledge to be successful
because you can make one sale and make a
few hundred dollars and so you know even
if you're not the best at website design
or you don't have the best suppliers or
you're not the best at you know Google
Ads which is essentially the main three
things that high take a drop shipping
consists of then you can still get that
feedback you can still make money and
then you can keep learning and keep
learning and you know compared to making
niche sites and doing some other things
it takes sometimes six months just to
get out of the Google sandbox just to
even see traffic starts trickling in and
then you don't know how well you're
gonna rank so yeah I think what's
important for us and what we try to
teach people is that you know you want
to get results as quick as possible and
again dropshipping is something that
allows you to get results without being
an expert and then you can
create expertise got it okay cool so
your your backs were to the wall you
were like we know we're gonna do some
online business stuff we don't know
exactly what you got some courses did
you only get like drop shipping courses
at that time or were you looking at some
other avenues as well well I had because
of because I did Amazon FBA I actually
well I mentioned the retail arbitrage
thing but before getting into Kindle I
kind of moved from that to wholesale so
I was kind of already familiar with how
to like reach out and like set up dealer
accounts with people and we kind of I
guess because of that we kind of thought
like worry we've already done ecommerce
at some level like I guess we don't
really debate what we were gonna do was
just we had a little bit of the skill
set we were doing the research and we
just thought like okay we have this part
of it down let's just let's just run
with it and I think um someone who had
done came to publishing had put out a
course on drop shipping that we bought
and then it kind of just let us down
that path and yeah when you know the
thing happened with our accounts we just
knew that that was what we were gonna
try to do yeah yeah that's exactly
that's exactly what happened actually
cool in like gum just for the people
that don't know so when you said you
were doing some wholesaling basically
you would purchase from wholesalers
manufacturers whoever and then you would
sell it on Amazon via FBA right I wasn't
I wasn't drop shipping it but I would
purchase big amounts get them shipped to
my house labeled and send him back out
and I was you know always do it I was
doing pretty well with that so it was
kind of a logical next step to just take
that to your own website cool now can
you just walk me through just actually
what you did what you guys did back then
as you were
I guess migrating over to drop shipping
and then you know what I won't ask him
is leading stuff just
the process what do you do yeah so
essentially what we do is you know we
decide first off what niche or kind of
broad industry that we're gonna go in
for our website and we'll go out we'll
spec out a bunch of different
manufacturers and brands that are in the
US just like you know you go to Macy's
you see they're selling a bunch of
different brands they don't own them all
they're just retailers for them so we
have a process of kind of finding out
who is more likely to be doing drop
shipping since drop shipping is not so
much of kind of what is hyped up to be
where you know you're selling cheap
items from China it's really just a
method of fulfillment and when it comes
down to the expensive items and
different industries pretty much
everyone is drop shipping in some regard
it's just you know there's no there's no
point in having an expensive item
shipped to your warehouse and then
sending it to a customer so yeah let's
back out what suppliers look good kind
of we talk we go into more of their
nitty gritty pricing and seeing you know
who's gonna be probably the best company
to work with we'll call them and we'll
you know fill out their dealer forms
it's a pretty simple process and then
from there you just list the items on
your site run Google ads to it and yeah
get some sales guys Joe were you gonna
mention something to you well I was
gonna say that as you kind of get into
it like when you make a site and you
start getting one or two good brands on
there and you start selling those it
kind of snowballs because what happens
is the other brands will they'll they'll
kind of see like oh they're selling my
competitor they're getting X amount of
traffic every month you know if I don't
get on there it's it's a loss for me so
there-there is like a ramping up process
I would say for a store so you know it's
kind of the more stuff that you're
selling the more you can
because the more clout you have in an
industry essentially cool so you get
like better terms and stuff and more
negotiating power and all that yeah
there's there's not a lot of negotiation
I think a lot of people you know when we
tell them be the contact suppliers and
do all this and that they think it's
kind of a big process most of them just
have pretty strict dealer terms but
there are dealers that really they have
a really really good brand and they
don't just let anyone in so you have to
prove yourself first and so that's kind
of what he's referring to is that once
you can prove yourself in the industry
you know then you can get these really
good dealers that have the best margins
they have the least competition and so
it results in really cheap traffic and
yeah all you need is really one brand
that is a home run to have a really
really good asset got it okay and then
as far as like running ads which I don't
I don't run ads I don't know much about
them I've done some Facebook stuff and
have a general understanding but I would
imagine you have to float you have to
float the money for a little while right
so you pay for some ads and things are
sold it takes you a little while to get
your money even if you made a profit
right so can you tell me about sort of
that part of it number one is that a
correct assumption or and then how it
works if it is so it's actually not
correct
so yeah with Facebook Ads it is more of
a gamble to where you have to test all
these ad sets you have to find the
winner and then by that time you know
you've spent a couple hundred dollars
and now you need to scale and get your
money back um with Google Ads you can
essentially just target the keywords you
want to show up for and Google gives you
a free you know hundred dollars to to
run ads with so by the time that we use
that three hundred you know we get
through that one dollar credit we are
usually profitable so yeah there's no
there's no really there's nothing to
really test it's just you put your ads
out you see which do the best and then
you kind of
just optimize around that say just you
know bid low we're on the ones that
don't work as well and then really
ramped up the ones that do work but
either way there should not be a very
long period of being in the whole yeah
you're kind of combining the the buyer
intent of Google users with margins that
you make a lot of products that you make
a lot of money on so with an affiliate
site obviously you make a few dollars
per sale if it's maybe some a dollar you
know a product so you essentially need
to rank organically for that in order
for it to work but if you're making a
few hundred dollars thousand plus per
product you don't need to get those get
those organic rankings and the buy the
same buyer intent is still there
yeah and we've had sales come from you
know clicks that cost us one cent and
you know that's not always the case
you know I will bid up to you know eight
dollars for a click but now that we know
what we're doing we can do that because
we know the kind of response that we're
gonna get but it's really you kind of
just set what bids you feel comfortable
with and then you see what happens and
yeah I'm not I'm not a big Africa
advocate for you know really going crazy
when you first start with that I think
it's a learning process and it's just an
art and you just need to get some data
and then you can make good decisions yep
and that totally makes sense I mean you
understand your margins you understand
like how much you could pay for whatever
the visitor I guess and then on average
how many you're gonna sell so once you
have the data then it's like you know if
it's gonna work or not right so yes so
Google will essentially tell you you
know what search term a person converted
on and so once you once you have that
kind of information you know that you
know a certain search term is profitable
then you can absolutely dominate that
search term whether it's through
shopping ads or through text ads or you
know and there's even ways to go beyond
that that we discuss like the more
advanced test got it yeah cool and is
there anything else on the just sort of
high level of how
dropshipping works other common
questions that I probably missed here
that you guys want to add in before we
shift to another area I'd say probably
on the level of customer support because
obviously you know when you have a niche
website there's no face-to-face
interaction with the customer you're
just ranking and you're you know getting
traffic and you're making commissions
with you know having a store it does
come with a bit of face to face and you
have to you know handle existing orders
and do different things like that and
you know it's really what you want it to
be so if you want to have a big store
that sells expensive items you're going
to take some calls but you can outsource
it to someone in the Philippines you can
get an American worker that's you know
can sort of take over your roles and so
we've done it in a multitude of
different ways and yeah it just depends
kind of on what you want your your life
to be like and you may be after that
I don't think so I think yeah I think we
kind of covered the high level of it
yeah I think that's actually one of the
harder things to put in place and create
a system for it is training someone to
do customer service but again you know
with if there's a barrier to entry for
everything right
so whereas it may take you 12 months to
learn SEO just so you can start making
money you know instead you know you can
put that time into training an employee
and just having a store that runs
automatically for you gotcha it's a good
way to put it I mean no matter what
business model you pick you could
probably make it work out and there's
probably gonna be some hurdle like
something that you're gonna have to
figure out whether it's SEO or customer
service or whatever so for the margins
can you give us some ranges of the
typical margins you're looking for and
some other expenses like baked into it
all aside from you know the materials
and the customer service and whatever as
far as we actually did a video on this
and
talk about how the percentage of the
margin isn't super important because you
can have a very low margin item like 10%
and then a huge sales volume and then
you can have the the inverse obviously
so the MARTA I mean I would say that
ranges from 10 to 10 to 50 yea accurate
so yeah it's only important in context
of the ad spend as we talked about
before if the ad is profitable it
doesn't matter if the mark if the margin
is and of course if it's worth the time
to you know if you're making 100 bucks
yeah you don't want to process a bunch
of orders that are you making 2 or 3
bucks but you're making 105 point you
know you got it you got to put a
combined all that put it all together
right right ok got it
so one other thing that I was doing some
pre-interview research on you guys and I
saw you have over 10 different
businesses and we mentioned some of the
stuff that you have in play so can you
sort of run through as much as you could
share about the portfolio and that sort
of thing I know some of its sensitive
information so feel free to just share
what you can but I know this is
something people are super interested in
to work for yourself call the shots you
know and then have a diverse set of
assets where if something goes wrong
maybe it's only 10% of your income or
revenue and you can adjust and shift and
it'll be okay so can you run through
sort of the portfolio and how you guys
approached it yeah so we have had six
different high ticket websites drop
shipping websites in total we've now
sold two of them we just wrapped up a
sale a couple weeks ago so first one we
sold for $133,000 the last one we sold
for $80,000 and so we have four websites
now that do drop shipping we have our
Kindle business and then we have
about five different content so a bunch
a little bunch of little niche sites
that yeah we kind of they've kind of
been a little bit of our Rd the way we
kind of split up the work well this I'm
gonna branch off a little bit here but I
think it'll I think it'll be helpful um
so what we really started to grow our
business was when we first started it
was like we were kind of just doing like
the same stuff like I'll be like oh
let's I'm gonna go change the adwords
bid so then the next day he would go
change the adwords bids or whatever um
but then we decided i think we saw what
inspired it was there one particular
thing that inspired that that we decided
to that we decided to distribute the
work maybe maybe James Schramko
yeah I think we saw a presentation by
James by James Schramko we really
started to split up the work and what we
really started to do to scale was that
cuz if you're splitting it between two
people you know you have to be efficient
so what we started to do with that he
would handle the management of the store
and the adverts and the reason he would
do the AdWords is because he has if he's
managing the store he hasn't better his
finger on the pulse of like what's going
on so it's much much easier for that and
then during the scaling phase and we
still do this to this day is like I'll
do all the it's the setup of the site
calling suppliers getting the suppliers
to you know getting in their dealer
program stuff like that so I'll handle
all that and it'll also handle like the
orangey stuff for new sites that we're
gonna be working on so I've spent the
last few years like two years I'd say
kind of figuring out the content sides
figuring on SEO and yeah so I thought
anted there but where that's great
that's how we structure our our business
so yeah we have we have Kindle which he
handles but I'll handle the site portion
of it and the Facebook Ads
and then the small content sites is kind
of my
playground they they earn around two to
three thousand a month depending on a
month I'm hoping it's gonna be higher
during the holiday season but you know
we're just really focused on
experimenting and reinvesting into those
could be know that those are those sell
like really easily so um yeah you know
we're just kind of we're focusing on
growth a lot right now and experimenting
and like I mentioned earlier doing a lot
of the combining of all these strategies
so I want to be the niche sites I'm
working on right now we just made it two
months ago and it's basically connected
to one of our stores and what we'll do
is kind of similar to to what you teach
it will focus on the long tail terms
because like we I have a niche site we
have one niche site that gets like seven
thousand sessions per month but it's a
you know very low the ad revenue from
that isn't very high it's like I didn't
get two or three are rpms and I think I
made up kind of may need to change the
ad network and play around with that but
with with if it's connected to one of
our drop shipping stores thousand
visitors a month could mean a thousand
rpm you have 2000 rpm so we've kind of
we've kind of come to that realization
and so we're really putting a big focus
on taking the learnings that we've done
over the past two or three two years
really and combining that with the
e-commerce and and Kindle yeah and if I
can if I can answer that a little bit
obviously not everyone who's looking to
get into this has you know a partner to
do it with and so you know dropshipping
me know plenty of people that do it all
by themselves and you know in our course
it's not you don't need to have a
business partner to do it it's just it
may take you a little bit longer to get
up and running and you know whereas we
have two people and so we we can do a
lot of stuff for one person it means you
know double the money yeah
trash yeah get a split it yeah yes I
mean to touch upon the the RPM thing
people aren't super familiar rpm
essentially means your earnings per
thousand visitors for typically like an
ad network and when a site is getting
organic traffic they judge okay how many
after a thousand visitors how much money
am I making in ads and so even on like
the best premium ad network you're gonna
get what like twenty rpm around that
twenty to thirty I do have you ever
gotten hire me um you know what I don't
keep track of earnings in that way which
is like so basic but I have no idea okay
we worked with with John Dykstra I you
know he's I mean he's all about the ads
yeah anyway so we kind of had the
realization that you know we're putting
in this time to get all these visitors
just to make twenty dollars for every
1000 visitors whereas on our you know
our drop shipping sites a thousand
visitors could mean you know a few
thousand in revenue and so you know
obviously you know we're very familiar
with me what you teach and the key word
fold ratio and all that stuff we figured
you know why not just apply that to our
high ticket sites get these really you
know you know high intent potentially
very profitable keywords and send them
to our own e-commerce website perfect
and I was gonna say this is obviously
not groundbreaking idea but people ask
about it all the time and they can't put
the pieces together so it's really cool
how you guys you know you started from
different areas you know Kendall Kendall
publishing the retail arbitrage in the
thing that I always say is like when
something goes wrong it'll be okay
because all the business models have
their flaws and issues and stuff like
you develop skills and insights that you
can apply in other areas which is great
and now you're like combining business
model stacking them on each other so
you're like oh we can make way more
if we sell our own product over here so
it's perfect I mean it makes total sense
and not to mention it boosts you know
the actual value of the asset itself
because you know you have multiple
domains you have multiple traffic
sources and you're earning revenue from
different areas so it makes you you know
less vulnerable to changes like an
algorithm update or something happen
with your ads account so yeah it's it's
something that you know we're investing
heavily on now to sort of set us away
from the pack cool yeah
all right now let's shift into a little
debate style so I'm sure we're gonna
have fun with this I was perusing your
blog and I saw a post on drop shipping
versus affiliate marketing and I think
you know it's a great it's a great read
in general so we'll link up to it and
then we'll just talk through it here so
we'll just hit the bullet points I think
you guys are gonna be more prepared than
me because you literally wrote this
article and I don't know much about drop
shipping so this release this should be
good so number one I think it's pretty
clear around the profit margin and just
in general I know from the affiliate
side like especially Amazon affiliate
you're effective like overall commission
rate is probably going to be maybe
somewhere between four and six percent
or something on average so you mentioned
before the drop shipping margins are
pretty high so anything to add to that
other that you said like 10 to 50
percent depending on a number of
variables but anything else dad so I
mean obviously with Amazon if you can
get the traffic obviously Amazon has a
really high conversion rate and how
we're talking about you know the volume
before we you know we would rather have
a 10% margin on something that sells
really well and gets really cheap clicks
with Amazon you do have the potential to
sell a lot of volume but you also only
have a 24 hour
cookie window so someone has to buy
something within 24 hours for you to get
credit
whereas with our site our sites you know
we don't have a cookie window there are
there pixels for us now and so we can
remark it to them as much as possible
and that is another edit benefit not to
mention that you get to bake in some if
you're in the right niche you can bake
in some additional lifetime customer
value because someone buys from you
they're gonna be on your email list they
can come back and buy more stuff you
know some some we sell actually sell
replenishable items on some of our
stores that are kind of expensive I mean
they're not thousands of dollars but
people come back and buy from us so yeah
I think the margin or the profit per
visitor compared to an Amazon affiliate
site is generally I think gonna be
higher yep and for Mike from my
perspective right because I'm I'm the
affiliate marketing person so I think
I'm gonna call it a push but it's up for
debate
because the volume and the number of
visitors potentially could make up for
it mate maybe the drop shipping in the
long run is better but I'm sort of like
the volume so high for some affiliate
sites and the traffic so high even
though the earnings per visitor or solo
it may be a push so what do you guys
think is that is that too big of a
stretch I think I mean you're in a way
you're you're right I mean but what do
you have to sacrifice to to get that
volume I mean to me and you know your
your I'll be the first to admit that you
probably had the greater mastery on
niche site creation than we do at this
point but even the best SEO is in the
game have sites that that tank or they
have sites that just don't work out the
way that they expect I mean I'm sure
would you would you agree with that yes
yes so let me put it to you this way is
for all the six dropshipping stores that
we made yes we've never had one fail
never
that we had to close we sold two of them
four of them are alive and kicking and
it's just because you're in control of
that traffic so I would say the
affiliate marketing is like you know
you're going out to the river and you're
like trying to scoop up some water with
like a cup or something but um okay
you're dipping your toe in the river of
traffic but you don't you're not
controlling the traffic and that's
that's the difference is when you are
doing paid traffic you're controlling
the traffic I think that's the
foundation that's a more solid
foundation for like a real business I
would say yeah because the don't
likelihood that your ad account gets
shut down is so minimal if you're just
doing everything by the rules which is
not hard to do you don't need to cheat
yeah the real problem with the affiliate
earnings obviously the volume is great
you don't need to do anything the
traffic just comes in but it's the
length you have to go and the risk you
have to you know you have to go through
in order to potentially get that traffic
to your site whereas you know with a
drop shipping site you can just get the
traffic and like basically on day like
once you have an infrastructure set up
you can run ads and get traffic like day
two or something right yeah yeah and the
ads are I mean they're evergreen for the
most part I mean because it's Google and
it's not Facebook Facebook Ads generally
speaking aren't like evergreen like the
audience is gonna get tired of seeing
your ad but like Google sends with the
buyer intent people you have new people
searching for stuff they want to buy and
they want to buy it so it's kind of like
just getting that position one spot for
sure
yeah for a little bit of money cool and
we sort of that was my fault that we
sort of were blending a couple things
together but okay so for making a profit
I think we I'm Matt I I think you guys
are probably right I think like profit
wise like a drop shipping site has like
more capability and there's like
obviously the margins are better and you
control things a little bit more similar
the traffic sources so that's what we're
talking about so affiliate sites
typically are relying on organic SEO
traffic because the margins are so low
you can't pay for ads and make money at
the same time for dropshipping you got
the data right so you have some
assumptions to start out with and then
once you get data you can keep rolling
with it on the ads so I think for
traffic sources if it works out
dropshipping is good but free traffic
it's good for affiliate sites so now one
thing that you guys mentioned before
sorta is I think a drop shipping site
could get free organic traffic too if
they just you know if you just put
content on the site right absolutely
you'd even get traffic to your category
pages again something that's something
that we're actively working on but yeah
there's no reason why you can't put
content on your affiliate site or on
another separate site if you want to try
and do like some mega master plan where
you avoid the cannibalization so if you
want to say you were ranking for widgets
on your like the category widgets on
your site or sorry your e-commerce site
and then you wanted to rank for best
widgets on your blog um you said it
separately you don't run into that
cannibalization issue makes sense
okay anything else to add about traffic
sources no it's about I think we're all
in agreement you know free traffic is
great and so with 20 up root traffic you
can get whatever margins it doesn't
matter it's just harder to get through
traffic and even though we seem biased
you know you know we also like the niche
sites so it's not like you know yeah
it's all friendly I think by the end of
this because we got a few more points to
go through I'm gonna try to do drop
shipping so okay so moving on to the
earnings per visitor I think like
affiliate sites you mentioned typically
can get a lot of visitors but probably
fewer sales and a dropship and you
mentioned
which you described as sales pipeline
control so can you talk about that a
little bit yes I mean I'm not sure what
we didn't how else we can expand upon it
yeah but can you just like for the
people that don't know what the pipeline
is and like how to control it like just
how you can explain it in layman's terms
okay so most of the people that are
going to be coming to the site because
of how we're running our AdWords
campaigns are gonna be visitors with
high buying intent meaning that they're
searching something that they're already
looking they're looking to buy they're
like far along in the research process
now that's the same with an Amazon
affiliate site now with an Amazon
affiliate site someone obviously has to
click over to Amazon if they click over
and you have a 24-hour cookie window for
Amazon to convert them on something that
product or another product but and and
that's about where that's about where it
ends for Amazon affiliate site but with
a when you control the traffic of your
ecommerce site put this in real layman's
terms here is the first the first thing
that happens when they come to the site
is they're getting hit with a
remarketing tag they're getting hit with
a Google remarketing tag to get
remarketed around the web on your
websites and they're getting hit with a
Facebook remarketing tag and you can do
Pinterest and some others so once
they're on our site they're gonna most
likely come back to our site I mean they
had to have a high chance and going back
to our site because they're gonna be
seeing our site over and over and over
again with the Amazon affiliate site
you're obviously not doing that now the
best case that's that's the worst case
scenario the best case scenario is that
they sign up free no list and then once
you're on once they're on the email list
obviously you have a much higher chance
of converting them yet again and they're
they I think I think that cool that
sounds it up I'll add something else to
that so say a customer say someone is
looking for an electric
all right so probably the first thing
they're gonna do is go on Google and
search electric bike and so they don't
know what they want yet they don't
really know what's out there they're
just kind of gauging the market and
seeing what's going on that's a generic
search like that is not something that
is as valuable as once the customer does
more research and they figure out okay I
want this Schwinn electric bike because
the customer that's searching Schwinn
they're already aware of the brand that
we carry
they're already you know they understand
the price point most likely and then
even from there if they're searching for
you know the brand and even the item
number then they're even more likely to
buy because they know exactly what
product they're looking for and yeah
that's that's really the main difference
whereas Amazon and niche sites kind of
stop at the you know best electric bike
kind of level we can go down further and
spend money to show up when they're
ready to buy yeah okay your regular you
can hit them on every layer so like even
if you build out a blog you can hit them
during the research process and then
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