hey what's going on welcome to the Doug
show in this episode we chat with Marty
McLeod again this is a continuation an
update for his success story when we
chatted with him last time he was making
about $500 a month but currently he's
making about a thousand bucks a month
again Marty drops some nuggets of wisdom
shares some inspiring advice and at the
end after the interview I'll answer a
few questions maybe tell a little story
we'll see how it goes by the way the
questions I'll answer are these or at
least these are the subjects so someone
bought some links which they now realize
is a mistake and they have way too many
links and they want to know what they
should do the next question is around
adding kgr terms to an existing site and
the third one is about finding keywords
that have a zero all-in title this is
for the keyword golden ratio so they
have a keyword golden ratio kgr of like
zero but the search volume is a certain
certain level and the person wanted to
ask about that so we'll get into those
after the interview so let's let's hear
what marty else to say I want to welcome
back Marty Marty you were on the show a
few months ago actually right I talked
to you back in like July of 2018 and I
want to get an update so thanks for
taking time out of your day my pleasure
now for the people that don't know you
can you just introduce yourself as far
as like your background where you're
from right so I do have a full-time job
my day I'm an engineer
Georgia not too far from Atlanta so this
is my part-time thing my website I have
two sides and I was a member of your
course started my main site last year
actually and by the time that I spoke
with you in them in that episode of your
YouTube channel I had I hit my first
real goal at that time so it's been a
long journey and this is where I am
today so living along
so in back in July you're making I think
you just hit the milestone of $500
exactly one and where are you out right
now in this is about six seven months
later it's early 2019 when we're
recording this so I've had some dips and
Peaks but I'm at about roughly a
thousand a month I not you know traffic
fluctuates sometimes you know as some
people know are aware of but and so the
goal right now is just to hit the next
go which is 1500 per month nice really
work it's still working hard on it and
congratulations by the way like once you
hit the like the early milestone you are
probably thinking oh I can't believe I
did it and now it's nice it's absolutely
it's like it's still coming in and like
the course was an expensive investment
and you obviously put in a crazy man of
time but like now you probably find that
it's fairly I mean you want to grow but
it's fairly passive at that thousand
years right right there there's all
these little things bits and pieces here
that need be fixed and most of it is
pretty yeah it's very passive a lot of
the stuff is just me improving and then
going up and cleaning up the site you
know say I had a issue with the images
as perfect example I did things the
wrong way in beginning and said I can do
that much better there's no reason for
it to look like that and that takes a
lot of work too
but it's what words of course little
things like that you know keep learning
reading watching videos listening to
podcasts and you've got a new podcast
coming out I'm sure I'll learn more from
things like that now let's sort of step
back into mind about how you chose the
category the niche and the products that
you are gonna cover for my main site
when I first started the program we
course members of your course are able
to talk with you bye and we go through
the evaluation process for Anish mine is
actually pretty competitive so it's not
really when it's one of the more
difficult ones which I didn't understand
that had that perspective at a time but
because there's a lot of there are a lot
of buyers out there it's related to I
will just say so consumer products that
a lot of people have heard of and it's
basically building this like doing the
really good keyword research in order to
rank in the top 10 and that's what made
it possible it always comes back
basic principles you know almost always
okay cool and you know from your
perspective you mentioned it's pretty
competitive but you didn't really know
until you got started like what insights
do you have for people because this is
where people get hung up right
they know that it's super important to
make a selection that is not going to be
too competitive but you also want enough
competitions I know that it's a
validated area too even you can make
money basically
so what tips do you have yeah well one
big thing I think really stands out
that's helped me so much is I know
you've I think it was the Moz bar you
have people using recommended there's
also you can use another extension for
Chrome called SEO quake and what I'll do
is I'll in my case for keywords but it
could be just checking in each same same
principle I use with the extension
installed I can see the stats for all
the competition that comes up in the
search engine results page or service
and that gives you a lot of insight into
the big picture you look at the big
picture it are there are some weak your
competitors do I have a stand a chance
at ranking in this nation or is it all
really tough and probably not a good
idea it gives you a lot of insight as
well as really funding out across the
board and generally speaking are the lot
of buyers for this product a lot of
different variations of this kind of
miss nation these products is there this
is there that this for moms is for
babies for example for this and not know
that is if there are a lot of those
that's even more potential keyword ideas
as you go further on down road as
opposed to something that's very limited
in terms of keywords that you might be
able to find because it makes a huge
difference right I mean the competition
analysis is really difficult because
once you start looking at an overall
topic there are hundreds thousands of
different keywords or products so it's
really hard I get emails often hey is X
niche a good one to go after the answer
is well I don't know but first it's like
I have no idea
and then really it's like yes most of
the time there's enough wiggle room
where you can like find a spot to
provide valuable information to people
that are interested
and that like sliver that you're
targeting yeah so it's really hard to
answer that question and a lot of times
it's like yeah it looks a little
competitive but you know why don't you
give I think I remember some of those
coaching calls were you and I were
talking and it was like it's gonna be
could be a little tough hopefully I gave
you good advice
like it could be a little tough but it's
hard to tell until you start publishing
stuff yeah then yeah mid chances are
right and you probably found this Marty
where it was like it maybe it took a
little bit longer than you thought it
would but if right can get past that
period yes the competition drops out
right right yeah yeah yeah definitely
that's a very good point
I have to think when you begin this you
don't always understand you think long
term because some things tech can take a
long time to to rise up in rankings and
for the site start building at momentum
if you're thinking too short term as and
I want to see results much much faster
you're far more likely to get
discouraged and some people potentially
even give up because of that which
you've got to understand that think you
you're looking long term gains not short
term right but it pays off it'll pay off
right if you can you know change your
mindset like that exactly and I was
gonna say I was just I got so excited so
I didn't mean to interrupt you
of course I was chatting with my wife
over the weekend and you know we're
often in a mindset of like how can I
make this whatever this is make this
happen as quickly as possible and the
decisions that you make if you're
looking say six months or even 18 months
out the decisions you might make are
totally different than if you're
thinking hey what about two or three or
five years from now like then the
decisions you make are dramatically
different in me you can make some pretty
bad dumb decisions
if you're looking to short term and yeah
absolutely yeah that's what we want to
do we want things faster and if you are
a little more patient then you know
things could work out fine so speaking
of patient
it's how old your site right now so my
main site is uh let's see
so gosh this less than two years let's
just I guess is what one three-quarter
years or something like that they're
trying to uh trying to remember it's
like it's like a newborn child or
something it's like you have 47 months
so okay so it's about it's about two
years old now when you hit the six-month
mark Google sandbox is something people
talk about so at six months did you see
more growth what about it yeah yeah for
that side it took a little bit over
three months once it got out for it to
come out the sandbox my second one was
actually faster by a little bit but yeah
so he took about roughly three months
for need for the sandbox period and then
progressively over the the following
number of weeks the original tempo
sprint that she has to and you're here
in your in your your course begin to
steadily see it kind of slowly rise up
as opposed to now where my son is a
little bit more authority and in some
cases it seems to get treated favorably
even potentially some things pop up
overnight
of course that's you know somewhat
unusual but it just goes to show you
that yeah there's a there's a slow
progression and once you get to a to
better days things normally take a
couple of weeks but in some cases much
much faster okay cool and about how much
content do you have on that first site
yeah so I'm trying to remember exactly
it's roughly 60 now 55 to 60 mm remember
because some keywords attract separately
but uh yeah somewhere like that it was
just say 58 58 ish okay that's something
like that yeah cool and are you like
actively publishing more content or are
you okay so what's how are you dealing
with that are you hiring writers what's
the situation
so yeah they even I'll have a question
about that as soon as I finish my my
description so I do it myself because at
this point I once I got a better
understanding of what content should be
based on the things I've learned from a
variety of good reference references and
good examples of then Internet as well
then doing my own which takes a lot of
work you know it takes time so it's a
little bit slow for me to get it out
say the most usually to post a week on
the weeks that I'm doing
I'm hoping to get writers to speed up
the process and you know that's that
leads me to my question I was mentioning
that you know I've not had good results
at all I get back a lot of on a good day
it's mediocre content from writers so I
don't know what you would advise person
to do you know Doug you know in that
case do I just keep looking or is there
a better route I don't know
so where have you tried to find a writer
so far I've started usual places I'm
currently at red another guy again up
work it's my work out but right off the
bat it doesn't seem super fantastic I
just tried a texture on it was I was
gonna give text broker a shot with a
sample so so some of the main places
including offered what was the main
issue that you see or actually what are
all the issues that you see when you get
the content back the biggest thing is I
there's a way to teach love in it it's
not real material whereas when I
personally write content I try super
hard to answer their search query their
question I make sure to be very specific
to the best of my ability I'll find the
information and I put it into words they
can understand and then I go into great
detail explaining things
and what I get back a lot of times is
just is very generic it's not they're
obviously not putting in the time to
look up the real answers and put it into
content and deliver value we're not
doing it I know exactly what you're
talking about because you probably have
some guidelines around word count and
then people are just filling it with
like the transitional phrases you know
out so you end up with really like
flowery kneeling I don't know a flower
yeah we're a lot of filler maybe yeah
you could say yes a total like mostly
not mostly but there's like say 25%
filler content to hit the word cure and
then if you strip that out you end up
with like a tight concise piece of
content that someone will read and you
know I've definitely found actually one
of the top things when I audit a site
and someone has not written the content
themselves I like look I read them the
content and
it's clear I'm like there's no point
there's like four sentences with no real
point like you could take all of that
out like would you keep reading if you
landed on that site and they're like now
I see what you mean it's really easy to
snag the content and then put it on
there so okay let's review what you said
so you've tried upwork which is my like
place of choice you've experimented with
a couple content sir yes yes I stay away
from Fiverr
because there's been a firm the most
parts been a huge garbage I right or was
that was terrible yep Tex broker is
generally the same as I write or early
okay I think there may be he's I haven't
used them in a few years but generally
it's like the same situation I believe
you probably can't get really good stuff
on Tex broker but you'll be paying like
the five star like top rating extremely
expensive at that point so I because the
marketplace is so good on up work as far
as the scope of people that you could
find
I would probably keep trying to hire
there I would potentially experiment
with different price points to see if
you could attract different kinds of
writers and I like really would
emphasize and I when I've worked with
writers I would just tell them I want
you to aim for these word kills but if
it's shorter that's okay and I tell them
I don't want fluff I don't want like
these transitional phrases that are just
not meaningful like you get it out I'd
rather have a shorter piece of content
that was punch here and got to the prime
googley writers a good writer will
appreciate it they will do that and you
can give them feedback and if they don't
get it because usually eventually you
will find a couple people that'll be
able to deliver and not have all the
flowery language there okay that's great
I appreciate that a lot
I'll put that too they're good to use
and then device and how much were you
paying good last lady was twenty five an
hour didn't go very far issues not I was
willing to pay more I know they're the
berries on there I'm not quark
I'm certainly willing to pay I'm not
trying to cheap out so I started it ten
fifteen then I went 2025 some people
want to do her
assignment okay which I know I won got
the less guy I was currently trying was
85 he said he wanted for one you know I
said you know if it's good enough I'm
like okay I'm not sure you go to be
honest yeah you know if you can get it
and you don't have to edit it that'd be
worth it I think yeah especially when
you look at you know the the site's
bringing in money you're seeing things
ranked like you're not at a point where
you're testing like hey does this work
you know that it's probably gonna rank
even if all of them don't bring in
revenue you know that you know some
percentage of them are gonna work out so
right yeah I keep testing and basically
probably like most organizations HR is
like really difficult to deal with
people are the worst so it's like if
you're trying to hire people then you're
gonna have like issues so even if you
find a great writer like you know they
may bounce at some point mm-hmm yeah I
kind of expect someone and do you have
any tips for like hiring writers I know
you haven't successfully like found the
right one but what right what what's
your experience with it well you know of
course we we had the things that we
learned from you from the course I took
that and just kind of modified it a
little bit so primarily I would say it
would be trying to get your writer to
use conversational tone because
Americans I one thing I notice is a lot
of content that's good out is not really
natural for Americans beep in the West
we don't talk or write like that
normally contractions are good using
smaller words we're more understandable
because for one thing my main site
especially my main site my audience the
reader audience demographics are so wide
is everything from young people to could
be a grandmother and you can't throw
down a bunch of super big words and in
technical jargon you need to make it go
high on written ability tell your reddit
you want to use small words for possible
if they have technical words or anagram
spell it out clarify what it is I try to
get them to use H 2's or at least
section off subsections subtitles use a
lot of those because in the content I'm
making a divided
clearly small paragraphs to two to three
sentences at the max sometimes one
sentence especially because on mobile
it's very different when a little-bitty
screen those turn into a long paragraph
so if not yeah I know exactly what
you're talking about with me with the
writers basically we're taught to write
in the third person right yeah that's
all right the third person right and
it's boring right it's really a mean you
need to write in the first person it
needs to be conversational I have had
some writers that let go all the way to
the other end where they're like it's
almost like they're writing an email to
like their friend or something and I
don't know it's some point they lose me
when they're you know it almost reads
like like an Instagram update or
something or so anyway yeah boy casual
is good and it's hard I mean once you
give people the approval and they get
the tone and all that stuff then usually
they get it because I mean that's how
like people do speak
all right cool now you said you did a
lot of writing we were chatting earlier
you mentioned you were getting into
copywriting a little bit so tell me
about that yeah there's a lot of
material out there and there's if you go
look at an internet basically it usually
moves out to people recommending these
top courses the thing is the best
copywriting courses are at least several
hundred dollars if not almost $1,000 bet
or even more or they're almost
impossible to find that's what's crazy
but I had the idea over the Christmas
break I went on udemy.com which is great
for a real popular site for courses and
various training of all different cons
and I only paid $12 and I got one
top-rated copy writing courses because I
wanted to improve what I thought I was
already a good idea and that's the
conversational writing but I wanted to
improve influencing sales and clicks
because that's basically what we're
doing is we have a site is helping
people to buy it was some of the best
money I ever spent it was a relatively
short course but it confirmed a lot of
my things about what we were just
talking about about the style of writing
as well as ways I could improve turning
features into benefits asking so why if
I want to write something so what why
does it matter this person write it in
the way that I want to no mouth make
them feel good or want this and things
like that there's some basic prints
moles in there and that helped a lot
okay and if you had I hate these kind of
questions but I'm an ass anyway if you
had like one tip for someone on their
affiliate site to improve the
copywriting a little bit you know based
on your knowledge the course like what
what would you give them
yes so I would if I would what is a
great question because I've actually
said this to people so I would write in
a way just like we just described
conversational tone that paints the
product tells them what they need to
know about the product but in a good way
that helps to make them say yeah you
know what I think this would be good for
me to buy and then don't be afraid to be
clear with your call-to-action make sure
that that is there and you lead up to it
and by the time they click theirs they
stand a very good chance of already
having decided you know what I might I
might pick up one of these bright on
don't be afraid to make your tell them
what you want them to do you know oh
click here and to freedom or check it
out blah blah blah yeah that's like you
should never rely on the person to
understand which you are leaving them to
you have to tell them directly yes you
know click here do this and then blah
blah blah yeah I've actually seen a
couple of people's life because I've
talked to so many people and in couple
cases the call to actions were never
good at all and I understand what they
weren't doing was because it wasn't
clear you know where to click on this or
no button you know there wasn't leading
up to that you know and there was a
clearly a nice flow that leads up to
them taking that action yeah exactly in
another situation that I see all the
time is like people use images and those
will be affiliate links and maybe they
don't have an any other proper
call-to-action but but say you're just
scrolling down the page or even if
you're if you're on a mobile device and
you're scrolling you know you have no
idea that the image like why am I gonna
click on the image like no one's gonna
click on your image unless you put
call-to-action in the caption it's like
clear the image please click on the
image yes whatever so that's that's very
true because based on what the heatmap
data that I saw that it wouldn't happen
otherwise unless you specifically they
need to click on it they weren't they
weren't clicking own images right so and
for the people that don't know what
map is can you describe that oh yeah so
I make make sure I get the technical
terms clear so a heat mount is a
basically it can be plugging in it can
be a service whatever it records and
identifies where people are clicking on
your on the post in terms of the most
activity and the least activity which is
it's also sometimes they use the same
word for a scroll map where you can see
where people went to in a post and spent
the most time reading that's awful also
very helpful sometimes you learn a lot
from others
okay and so with that information and
then your copywriting like what things
have you learned about images or calls
to action or the heat map in general
yeah so I found that table a table of
contents does very well based on the
data that I have so far I'm putting my
products at the bottom of my post and my
general content at the top seems to be
actually doing better some things are
counterintuitive sometimes based on on
what I saw you I need to have here
subtitles and subsections where people
can know where they can click to get to
it
some people want to read that the whole
thing so you want to jump right to the
five best blah blah blah it needs to be
clear and it needs to be spelled out
where they can they can go and how they
can do it you know don't use any funky
colors like so things that are unusual
that people don't expect to be there
most people are used to things being
like a blue links for example as opposed
to bright pink or something crazy you
know people are inherently accustomed to
things working a certain way you keep it
as simple as possible help make it easy
for them to find what they want and then
go through your content and it possibly
behind click click and buy got it and
just want to double check because
there's a lot of different sort of
conversions or positive sign you may see
and so by putting the top 5 post or
however the top 5 products or whatever
the choices are at the bottom you're
saying there's an improvement what is
the improve yes sales as a time on site
or what it was actually to the my time
outside has seen me pretty good either
way but for some reason sales was better
clicks and sales are better specifically
with the cut with the best products with
my product section on the bottom I'm not
100% sure what it is
I think it's potentially trust because
they see the pre-existing content before
they get there which kind of validates
this is a legitimate post this guy's got
a lot of information here I can go ahead
and just go in down here find one that's
my thought process but I'm not sure
about that that's a little bit harder to
figure out yeah I mean you really
wouldn't know and I guess the one thing
I can add is for example like a sales
page of which I've done many typically
you have from the you know the
copywriting stuff that we've studied you
have like the story right you have the
story the background all the benefits
and those sort of things and then at the
very end then you go for the sale right
you don't jump right in and say click
here do you like do do this although you
know sometimes people may put a link up
at the top and it's like you know if you
want to get right over to Amazon for
example about like on the sales page
typically you know you need to rope them
in and focus them and get them to pay
attention to the things that'll help
them make the decision which that
totally makes sense to you from what you
said yeah yeah I mean I mean I may say
differently in the future when I get
more data because it's all about making
sure finding data you know it's a couple
different ways to do it but based on
what I've seen so far that's correct
I managed completely changed subject so
let's not give you a brisk transition
over to it why are you doing this why
what made you get started on an
affiliate marketing long story short I
forget how I did it but I was cruising
the internet years ago and I saw guys
who were living in another country and
making money online and blew my mind and
I I don't have those software skills
these guys had so I couldn't do that
just as a regular contract worker living
remotely so I thought well how could it
make money online what's actually a real
long story sure that's how I found about
you my ultimate goal is I want the
freedom to travel live or I want to and
be my own boss and also have control of
what I produce and what I do I enjoy the
creative aspect and content and things
like that helping people is nice too you
know very cool I think I remember from
our first interview
there were a couple other people that
you followed to do you want to mention
any I mean I'm happy oh yeah absolutely
you know yeah because what I've found
over time is there's this is just like a
handful of people who are really good
like you and a few other guys who are
really legit and have solid advice so of
course Doug Huntington Dom Wells and
human proof designs the authority
authority hacker guys they also have
podcast as well as articles let's see
who else goodness
actually a a trust has their own YouTube
channel is short of a suite and they
provide a lot of even if you don't use
their tool there's a lot of information
there that applies to affiliate
marketing as well it's just coming is
practical actionable stuff I definitely
highly recommend that but those were the
two or three biggest names that come to
mind right now yeah cool I know Alma
mentioned yeah all those guys are great
I followed a lot of them at some point
in time still do for some others and an
aged refs like some of the best like
blog content because they have so much
data and have access to so much
information so yeah the YouTube channel
is very good their blog is fantastic if
you want like long-form
case studies where they like use data
most of the time you know it's really
hard for people to get that information
and they just have access to it so so
what we can say oh I'm sorry I forgot
one guy he was one who constantly down
the road of copywriting and how I
actually did my text links they're
different than when I started a kyle
trouble who his site is he's a big
affiliate guy but he's also in travel
and things like that
not really Amazon but he is one of the
people who said you know try to reach
out to the reader with emotion and
Hylton them that way don't just have a
cold block of text and also tried to
make your links flow naturally it helps
to fund the extremely helpful and it in
kind of it motivated me to learn more
about copywriting and the sales pitch
and things like that like you guys so
good at no yeah it's super interesting
like if people are trying to like do the
I guess like next-level stuff
I think the copywriting is like super
valuable and I wish just working a
corporate job I
starting to throw in some copywriting
ideas in my like business emails which
was so much different than you know you
probably get a tiny emails work and
stuff but like the terrible writing
where it's just blocks of text and
sometimes yeah you know they don't get
to the point you know there's no
executive summary and it's like a page
long and it could have been a paragraph
so just using a copywriting like in
general to communicate is like super
helpful even if you don't think you need
it you know you'll probably appreciate
it it's like a really underestimated the
why it's so important I was so naive
about days but it's true is very
important one of the biggest things I
learned along the way was people often
make a buying decision based on emotion
mm-hmm and that's very powerful if you
write with that kind of stuff in mind
and appealing to that reader as opposed
to being a cold third-party style as you
write because that's what I did when I
started and I went back and redid all of
that content and it's much better now
its laid-back friendly I'm trying to
help you kind of style and here's why
it's great and you know solve your
problem I'm nadiyah you know do you have
a handle on how much the conversion rate
improved from like the old old stuff -
you know how it stands now back then I
don't think I had tracked it very well
but it was a few percent back in the
original days but my mom I thought was
really young now I have urged somewhere
between twelve to fourteen percent so as
reported from the Amazon dashboard yes
right you know so probably it sounds
like you went like a hundred percent
assuming it was like five or six percent
before so you basically double your
conversion right yeah yeah I can pretty
confidently say that it's been pretty
steady at this level yep nice and I
think that doubled that low double-digit
range 10 12 14 percent it's really high
like not that many people have that and
I think that's probably twofold ones
keyword golden ratio which I know you
utilize you know and then the other is
like the solid copy writing and just
attention to like trying to improve
that stuff you know I made sure to have
a Mayu the user experience my sites are
very good it's clear it looks like a
good brand that you would trust if you
landed on my page you had no idea they'd
never been there before
it looks like a real brand on easy to
read I don't give off any weird but
stuff like a lot of feel it's nice to
their to push you to buy something click
a button I try not to take the approach
at all I try to learn apply what I've
learned from the big guys right you know
and it seems to be working very well and
I'm most actually a lot happier with
what I work on because of that - it's a
lot better about it
very good so going back to like your why
and why why you started the sides you
wanted to be able to travel work on some
get more interesting so just curious
like where do you want to travel just I
mean you could day down here
tell me the story if you're not sure so
I do speak a fair amount of Spanish and
I've been to some Latin countries but
I've never been to Asia and I never been
to Europe and I know that there's some
guys who live abroad who are making
money online online they're
entrepreneurs they're living in Asia and
places like the Ukraine so I'd love to
go places like that stay for a while
maybe stay in Colombia for a couple
months at least had the opportunity this
kind of daydreaming as far as the
specifics aren't out when I get there
but I would love to go to Ukraine for a
while and then maybe some parts of Asia
who knows where sure the dollar goes
pretty far in those areas so yeah
exactly have to have you know as much
you don't have to replace your day job
income necessarily so yeah
I've already got my I know my estimated
budget needs to be my earnings vs.
expenses the information is out there if
you just look around and try to find it
there's some solid answers out there and
there's guys already doing this and
they'll they laid out for you so sure
and I'll give a little shout out I'll
put links in the show notes in the
description and all that stuff but my
friend Rob Atkinson he lived in Thailand
for a couple years or so but you know
when he moved out there with his wife
they basically like they were
making money online and then some sites
got penalized and I like dropped to zero
but luckily I mean they were to have
plane tickets they weren't the play
right so like they had to figure it out
and the you know the cost of living
there was low enough he had some time to
figure things out and slowly like grew
everything back up it actually wasn't
even that slow it was a different time
back then in 2018 so he was able to get
things pumped back up pretty quick and
he's doing well so yeah and it's amazing
how many people I know who have sort of
a digital Nomad type lifestyle which
would you travel around a bunch or would
you like kind of set up a home base I
think that was for a little short while
on a travel around little bit and then
out set up home base once I found a
place I thought was a good fit you know
yeah my wife and I we we traveled like
in the u.s. we traveled with our dog who
passed away like years ago but we were
we were traveling around and we were
like we don't wanna go international we
want to bring the dog everywhere so we
traveled around the US and did road
trips instead so that's cool did a lot
of domestic travel now of course in the
u.s. we didn't take advantage of the you
know dollar arbitrage situation so like
we went to like more expensive cities
most of the time so it like was
expensive but it was cool to see other
places of course yeah so oh I forgot we
also stayed like a month so we would go
somewhere and rent a place set up shop
so it's not like so rushed cuz like you
know on vacation you feel like you have
to do everything and then you end up
like really tired so absolutely yeah so
we would just stick around for like a
month we'd get to go like shop at the
stores live like locals and we didn't
feel rushed
so anyway alright for people that are
maybe like just getting started or maybe
they haven't started yet and they're
thinking hey that would be great to have
more you know income revenue coming in
any tips for people who are thinking
getting started there's mo always boils
down to two things you need a good plan
and you need to always take action so
they need some kind of plan to know how
to approach this because I've actually
heard that come up sometimes people even
bought a ready-made site in and then I
don't know what to do you need a good
definitely recommend if I figure in each
type course its its actual stuff that
you do and it's a plan that's clear as
you here's how what you do on a point B
yadda yadda and then they need to just
really be consistent I used to being
serious about doing the work you know
keep your gonna make mistakes in the
beginning and it's okay because that's
just how it is it's a process right
nobody was nobody learns overnight it
becomes a millionaire you need to just
keep trying and keep learning and you'll
get better and better better and smarter
smart smarter you'll find more and more
opportunities for things like keywords
and things to write about and nice ideas
whatever the case may be and at least a
more success you know to the point of
using the using a framework thanks for
saying that about my course I think I
think it does work pretty pretty well I
did have this has been a few weeks ago
someone bought the course they went
through the first couple units and have
a very generous return policy I do
I've try and force people to do the work
by the way within return policy yeah
like a train you know take the risk away
though right you got to remove risk from
a copywriting perspective I remove the
risk and I'm like hey it's on me if you
do the work it should work out for you
now this guy or gal I'll just keep it
generic this person who got the course
went through a little bit and then they
were like oh you know what I already
know that stuff I don't think it's very
useful I was like well did you go
through the exercise institute
brainstorm did you do competition
analysis like did you do the work and
they didn't and that's why they were
unfulfilled they just thought oh I
already know that stuff because I've
read about it I've heard it on a podcast
I've watching YouTube videos and it's
not very useful to like know how to do
something if you can't execute so we can
like read there's all the analogies
right you can read about like swimming
you can read about writing a bite now
you can read about having sex but
till you get in there like yes
completely don't know the world at Apple
it's reading and doing your tree
different things as I always say it's
true tremendous difference taking action
is just getting up the couch actually
doing something is the biggest obstacles
for I would dare say the majority of the
population you know that's the biggest
thing I run into it's anyone who's ever
asked me about this topic most people
just won't aren't willing to try they're
not willing to actually to try work on
it if you're willing to do it you're
motivated the rest is up it's definitely
possible you could figure it out yeah
now Eve mistakes now you mentioned a
couple times how you're gonna mess up a
little bit do you have any like fresh
mistakes that you made in the last six
months since we chat last six months
let's see anytime that I let's see here
gosh it's a great question it's great
you haven't made any like notable huge
mistakes in the last six months I think
it wasn't too long ago actually while
we're recording this it was only a
couple days ago I sent out an email to
my email list and I was like hey I don't
know if you got this I was like hey they
could've doin like maybe a little
mastermind thing and I only expected
Marty like maybe 10 or 12 people to
reply back I have like a hundred replies
back so I didn't set I just said hey
shoot me an email back just reply
instead of setting up like a forum or
something like that so anyway that was a
silly little mistake that I made even
knowing that I'm sending out an email to
you know a few thousand people and
there's a chance that a lot of people
may reply but hey I didn't think of it
so sometimes you just take some action
and then you have a data point on what
not to do I mean it's always valuable
feedback to and to take action and do
something yes even if it kind of blows
up in your face
so there's anything else that we should
highlight as far as you know beginners
getting started or any other thoughts
like when people do ask you about this
sort of thing I would say so a really
good piece of advice is if you're a
beginner and you have a site or your be
starting one if you're aware of somebody
who is making money and they're
trustworthy I would definitely ask them
nicely if they would take a look at your
site and give you feedback before you
get too far
because it's extremely valuable
sometimes because the things that I've
seen tell me a lot about a lot of a lot
of people make the same mistakes I keep
seeing the same patterns honestly my
another really big piece of advice I
give people is does have to be perfect
honestly try hard to do your best
content from the beginning and the best
setup of your site and things like
images and all that from you're getting
because it's a lot easier than go back
and do it all over again make your site
look halfway decent
don't throw some crap together because a
lot of people don't even get a good good
logo they just really don't try of your
harness unfortunate because as you
teaching a course you know you want to
have a domain name you name your site
that's broad enough that it it can lead
to more things and better things but if
it's brandable it looks like a
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