Jon Dykstra [Fat Stacks Blog] and Doug Cunnington [Niche Site Project] Talking Shop #Best Education Page #Online Earning

hey what's going on in stug huntington

here and in this video I talked to John

Dykstra he was on the channel a like a

couple weeks ago and people really liked

the conversation I did too

and John and I just were chatting and I

was like hey can we record this people

like to hear just conversations that we

might have so that's what this video is

and I will give a quick plug for John's

YouTube channel as well and podcasts so

we'll put some links in the description

for you to check that stuff out I will

stop rambling and you can get like the

over-the-shoulder sort of conversation

that we had and if you have any

questions or anything just leave them in

the comments below thanks hey what's

going on it's Doug Pennington here and

my friend John Dykstra how you doing

today doing great thanks ran out of it

and we had such a great response from

the other episode which if you haven't

heard it do check it out that we brought

John back on and we were just gonna talk

shop and just have a conversation so I

have a couple things that we want to

talk about and I'm just curious just on

a personal level John are you family man

like what's your situation it sounds

like you got a lot going on

business-wise but I'm just curious

yeah married very 10 years this year

wonderful wife and we have two boys

seven and four so yeah very busy at home

- yeah in 10 years so I'm coming up on

my 10th anniversary have you already had

your attempt anniversary we did what you

guys do if you could share oh yeah with

you through a huge part that's fantastic

never done at that scale before it was a

lot of fun awesome congratulations yeah

my my wife and I think we may just check

out the symphony they're playing like

Goonies on the big screen with like a

live symphony so oh yeah yeah we're big

fan of Goonies it was like I don't know

how old you are but we're both bald so I

assume you grew up in the 80s so

I'm an 80s kid indeed indeed all right

we'll get to it here so I'm curious why

you started fat stacks yeah you know it

just kind of happened I was build-up

niche sites really one at the time and I

was I was doing a lot of Facebook stuff

and you know I enjoyed reading other

people that wrote about what they were

doing with the site so I always

appreciated the ones you know I learned

a lot from I got misinformation from

some I mean that's found it happened

it's not their fault I don't think

they're trying to mislead Englishness

you know not everything works for

everyone but I must say overall on the

balance I mean I've been able to do what

I've done because a lot of people have

blogged about what's working and so I

just thought it would be cool to

participate in the community with the

blog yes a business that's a commercial

no prizes profits involved and so forth

that's not a charitable website

altruistic effort but I always enjoyed

reading those other websites I still do

I mean I read yours all the time I like

being on your email list I read it every

time so and it's fun I mean I like

writing about the stuff but I'm having

more fun with it today than I think I

ever have I really enjoyed writing and

hearing back from people I mean I've met

you you know I'm sure if I never ran

that sock site I'd probably would have

never met a lot of people I have so it's

just been a fun and you know fortunately

it's it's a profitable endeavor couldn't

ask for more really very cool yeah I

mean I'm basically in the same boat

where I was like I learned from other

people it seems like an interesting

thing it helps you like communicate

better I think probably as a lawyer you

did a lot of writing it's very critical

for you to communicate clearly and I

have like a technical background so I'm

not good with words so much better with

like all the analytics and numbers so

it's really helped me a lot but I could

see it as a perfect outlet we're like

you're obsessed with you know

this this marketing area and then you

could talk about it refine like how

you're thinking about it and that sort

of thing so very cool now when you start

in fast acts where you like hey I'm

gonna do affiliate like offers or were

you gonna do your own products or did

you even know at the very beginning oh

it was just gonna be contacting some

affiliate stuff in the beginning I had

no immediate plan I do a course or

anything like that but it slowly grew in

popularity it's still fairly small

website I would say relative to a lot of

the other ones out there I I don't have

40 hours a week to devote to it so you

know that it's that's the way it is but

it didn't take too long until I thought

maybe I try a course and I put one

together and that work recently well I

enjoy doing it so that's sort of where I

went

I've I feel like stuff I think I even

had ads on it once upon a time but it's

not really a type of site where I think

you're gonna do best with that I'll

leave that for my other sites

very good when did you start fat stacks

by the way 2015 probably yeah toward the

end of 2015

yeah you know I remember you know

speaking of like just a networking that

happens with bloggers one of my friends

Lois Ogden I think he told me about your

blog first and then I checked it out

back in the day I think probably circa

twenty fifteen most so probably early

early days but yeah like I knew Louis

cuz he blogged at cloud income and then

yeah so just it's it's sort of an

interesting it's an interesting network

and if you have like a platform for

people that are thinking of starting a

blog like if you have a platform like

you you can reach out and people will

probably respond not always you got to

have like someone like if you start a

brand new blog and you're trying to do a

roundup like I may not I may not

participate because they don't get

published I've done probably five or six

podcasts where I recorded I spend an

hour or more with someone and then never

publish them and I was

I just wasted all that time so but the

networking Oh super cool yeah I agree

so you mentioned you were getting into

courses a little bit and like the first

one went pretty well so you started in

2015's fat stacks

when did your first course like come

about 2017 maybe maybe 2016 right around

there

okay and what was it called niche tycoon

well it's the first course it was a

pretty extensive course and I I did that

for quite a while eventually it needed

the whole revolve a lot around Facebook

traffic

no not exclusively could but a lot of

Facebook eventually when the Facebook

party ended obviously the course needed

to be well it was kind of it's kind of

done it had its time so I that's how

that course is no longer available and

then you've done obviously since that

sort of marketing mechanism went away no

longer effective you've gone back and

you do more courses and we just talked

about it now like you do several courses

now right you have a suite of course is

out there so what keeps you going back

to courses even though you know you have

a limited time and you know there's

customer support and just the tech side

of it also what keeps you going back oh

well it's it's really a good way to

monetize the website for my efforts

bill - pretty good audience and I get a

lot of people asking me questions and so

of course has helped with that but it

the end of the day it's it's a good way

to monetize the site rather than just do

an affiliate stuff it gives me more

control over at - in terms of you know

like Sam do it I'm doing small courses

now instead of one large course or two

large courses with everything the

kitchen st. but it's which was what my

first course was on what I do is I

create very focused courses under

Wallman method or angle

and that's it and that's of course and

the reason I'm doing god is I don't I

think unless people pick and choose I

face them lower than I otherwise would

if it was everything at one but unless

people pick and choose what they want

and it also gives me control over sort

of releasing different courses and

offering promotions support throughout

the course of the year rather than doing

it twice or three times of one-week

course I can I can continually sort of

as a promotional aspect I've got

something always that will be fresh and

able to promo in in by doing that it

also gives me incentive to continuously

update them some will won't eat a whole

lot of updating some would need

continuous update like a long continuous

up once or twice or three times a year

sure very cool and I think it's a

brilliant way to position the courses

like you said it's it's micro focused on

a like transformation or like learning a

specific thing and usually not always

but usually those those things are

something someone can like learn over

the weekend and start implementing like

right away do you have like an example

of one of them where you're like yeah if

someone takes this course they'll be

able to like knock something out in just

a few days or a week or so yeah my

display adds deep dive which basically

sets out exactly what display ad

networks I'm using where I'm putting

them on what configuration how in a

format the content on my say basically

every single thing I do because I run

many sites the same they pretty much

myself in running experiments which I'm

often doing but if I'm done everything

gets laid out the same makes it easy

makes it efficient and their layouts at

work after five years of testing but

essentially I put the same ads in the

same places and so with that course I

mean there's not a whole lot to it but

you can look at what I'm doing and go

make the changes in soil so that's one

example

I would say another good advantage of

doing the smaller courses is like for

instance with the big horse right when I

used to sell it and I enjoyed it but

like when let's say a third of it

becomes obsolete right and I don't know

how you deal with this to be actually

interesting to hear what you do well

let's say a third of its obsolete and

you can really update it but the trouble

I found was is people bought the course

you can't go and start deleting modules

hey but at the same time I didn't want

to have a course where the information

isn't very good either it's outdated or

I'm not doing it or you know you want to

eat so I struggled with that I have this

big course with everything in it and

then but I didn't want to go delete

stuff because people paid for it and

they're entitled to have that content

remain in there but at the same time if

somebody else buys it I don't want to

mislead them thinking well I'm doing

this when I'm actually not but it's in

the course for the people that bought it

previously so I find when I break it up

if something is no longer working or

it's not relevant or any subject I'd

just drop the course and no longer make

it available yet I have all my the other

stuff is all fresh so that was another

big is it was a response to a problem I

was fighting with habit of course and

I'm maybe I'm curious I mean I am

curious it here how do you deal with

that because so actually I've had the

same thing at one point in time I had a

course on private blog networks right

yeah so that actually that was one of

the very early courses and you know

eventually I was like I don't want to do

that anymore and just you know it goes

away like you said the current course

that I generally promote five-figure

niche site I tried to make it is

future-proof as possible I actually used

probably too many tools that change over

time so something like longtail Pro or

ez Azon or some rush or fill in any tool

like they slowly change over time so if

you

if you actually create videos and

screenflow's like it can be confusing

and you have to go back and do like

either redo them or in some cases where

I found like better tools to use I had

to redo it so I try to remove the

dependency on specific tools and then if

it's the case where I'm like alright

this tool is the best one to use I may

instead of doing a video which most of

the course is in video I may do

screenshots because it's a little bit

easier to replace like the one

screenshot if they move a button or they

change some little thing just one

screenshot versus like a whole video to

either be edit or reshoot the whole

thing that's a huge pain but yeah I mean

that's that's either that's something

you got a deal with it's like you gotta

either update it or try to make it

generic enough where the concepts hold

up and I wonder like you know for

example Brian Deana backlinko or

I've taken several courses from I will

teach you to be rich the safety

copywriting like a lot of stuff from

from him and date generally well they

have a big staff they have a little more

firepower than than I do but they make

it quite generic like they they're

hitting the main concepts and I think

after I took a few of those courses I

saw oh I need to I need to go like maybe

a level up and then if anything to your

point like you can't necessarily like

remove certain things but I'm I would

move it down to the bottom put the

updated material on top and say oh this

is deprecated like back in the day this

tool worked really well but currently

don't recommend it and I put you know

red slashes through so there's no no one

accidentally thinks hey I need to buy

you know that tool that basically and

yeah it's tough because I mean you know

we're running a lean shop it seems like

neither you or I want to have like an

org chart although you have a little bit

of a network chart going on but you just

have one person reporting to you in

general

like to do to do the courses like some

of the bigger guys that are and gals

that are out there like publishing a ton

it's like you have to have a staff that

like goes through every line it updates

everything and like email support how do

you handle email support or support for

the course well actually sort of forum

for anyone who buys any one of my

courses so it's private but that's where

the support is but it's it's way more

than support I when we christen he was

running rank Excel I like Chris a lot

and anyways he started a forum and I

joined he was charging it a small fee

for and I've lots of fun on there he had

quite a few people on there and it was

active and I enjoyed it but then when he

he is no longer running it ranking so I

sold it I'm obviously the forum just

kind of stopped and I'm like oh I kind

of miss it

so I fired one up but I thought okay oh

the question was public or private oh

listen I cheat good way to just offer

support as well for people who buy

courses because I'm on it Monday through

Friday and I can see their questions

right away super easy so so that's how I

do it and it's worked out really really

well but it's not support like we have a

lot of you know it's almost 300 people

on there it's community lots of get info

I mean there's people on there they're

only go specifically but they really

know their stuff so we're all at

different phases and stages but anyways

support is handled through there rather

than something like what is it

Zendesk or fresh desk herbs one of those

yeah anyways it's been good because

people can see the questions and if they

got something private

I welcome to me email me if they don't

want to public I have no problem

gotcha and I'm doing it all through

email and I have a VA who helps me with

like common questions but generally I

mean I think that's part of one reason

why I charge a lot and then people are

happy to pay it cuz like you send an

email I end up reading it and I'll treat

you with respect versus you know YouTube

comments I'm a you know bust somebody's

balls pretty regularly if they ask a

silly question but if you're a student

of mine then I treat you with respect

like we're talking faced that's so very

cool well you know what I think we

probably are at the end of time here but

John anything else on your mind anything

else you want to chat about I know one

thing I've found is interesting lately

so could we've been kicking around

aspects I don't talk about fast acts

much as part of my business really I

just don't see this it's relevant I sort

of like stick to about the new sites and

testing any but one thing I found

interesting email marketing for me has

always been embossed I've always been

dad I don't even my niche site so it's

been very good with fat stacks and I

enjoy it but one thing I found that is

has helped out a lot is to write more in

the emails than in you know just check

this out linked out to a blog post I

think a lot of people and I notice it

for myself I started doing this because

you don't run our phones a lot right and

you get the email that say I'll read the

email if it's in the email it just

ripped my thumb through it and boom boom

boom but I'd only feel like you know

going to wait and for a site to load and

blah blah blah right so I just thought

that that was interesting it's it's

worked out it's not to say don't do the

link thing anymore I mean I still do it

but anyways but you know on the email

marketing side of things

the other the other thing that I've had

two bits of information that I wouldn't

say is wrong you just never work for me

over the years and one is is that

display ads don't make money

that is not true depending on the me

shirt the other thing is is that email

all the money is in the list and I would

disagree with that in in so far saying

that is not the case in every niche

because I am anisha's and I have built

up huge email bus

and I have tried everything under the

Sun to make it even worth the cost of

paint any weather to have these

subscribers and it doesn't work I'm not

saying there's not collateral benefits

with it there are I could send traffic

to my site I can do this that I can do

that but it's a lot of work and a lot of

money for really not a whole lot of

benefit so I just put that out there

because I know a lot of people I was

really frustrated for a long time

because I kept reading like everyone say

ament's the money's in the last so now I

would just say to people hey if you're

in a niche and I don't know what Nisha

would be but there are a lot of issues

where you can build up a huge email list

and there's nothing to do anything for

you and you know what I'm in the same

boat as you so don't just think like

you're doing it wrong or anything like

that because you're likely not it's just

that's the niche that's the weight it's

every niche is different and if I don't

say a lot of them are kind of like that

I think they're just general info

entertainment like they'll tell me you

sign up to a like you're a favorite

celebrity gossip site you happen to sign

up on their because they were given some

cool away I mean you know really like

every email that comes through or you

know by something that no you're not

you're there because you want to be

entertained for like 20 minutes so

that's it right so anyways that's that's

the last thing I'll address and I

already appreciate coming on this twice

video gets been fun thanks a lot

fantastic yeah and I agree with you

I've grown some big lists out there and

like yeah you can get some traffic to a

couple blog post or whatever I've done

big autoresponders but yeah if it's not

a good list for what you're trying to do

there's just like no point in it so I I

stopped doing email capture like for

certain sites but others you know

obviously it's a process like that sex

is really important it's a big revenue

driver and before we finish up did you

see Netflix has a like a promo for like

the sequel or like after Breaking Bad

yeah I don't know what you think about

it yeah I know can't weigh whatever it

is whether it's a movie or two TV show

whatever it'll be awesome yeah yeah yeah

and for the people that don't know fats

taxes is a callback to Breaking Bad

fantastic show love it

so all righty well thanks John

I'm sure we'll do it again soon so have

a great day they're super you too thanks

doc

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