what's up it's Doug Huntington here and
in this interview I talked to Evan Evan
is another success story and this is an
update so if you didn't check out the
first interview with Evan I'll put a
link in the description so you could
have a look there this is really cool
because at least when I talked to him he
was on target to hit eight thousand
dollars for the first time in his niche
site journey which is really cool so
he's making revenue from multiple
sources so I think he has you know a
chunk from Amazon he has some ads
potentially and maybe some affiliate
offers so he has a multiple sort of
tiers of monetization but
congratulations Evan you you're hitting
like a pretty high milestone we get into
the weeds quite a bit so we talked a
little bit about Pinterest but the
really deep part that a lot of people
don't mention is the business side so we
talked about forming a company an LLC
your corporation or whatever we also
talked about S Corp filing taxes and
consult please consult your accountant
and attorney and people that know what
they're talking about because Evan and I
go back and forth and we talk about what
we did but it's clear that we are
uninformed that we don't know what we're
talking about but if you are starting to
make some money then you probably want
to listen to this to get an idea of what
you need to get into so without further
ado let's go to the interview thanks a
lot Evan really appreciates taking the
time to chat with me today all right
what's up everybody I'm sitting with my
friend Evan how are you doing today hey
Doug I'm good I'm glad to be back and if
this is the first time that you've seen
video so this is an update and you and I
talked I think was about six months ago
something like that in the summer of
2018 and you were doing pretty well if I
remember you're making like three four
thousand bucks on your site which was I
think like a year and a half old
and you were using the keyword golden
ratio and it's working out pretty well
right yeah yeah exactly I guess it was
right about six months ago we talked and
I was just kind of on the verge of
hitting that 4k a month mark so what
happened we're recording this now in
like January of
20:19 so where we at now as far as
revenue traffic stuff like that yeah so
the good news is that right now in
January I'm on track to have my best
month ever by far on pace for something
like 8k this month which is really
really exciting you know but there's
definitely been some ups and downs on
the way here which is which is wild you
know we talked I was making I think
3,800 is where I came in that month that
we chatted and before that I had seen
like these crazy incremental jumps like
every month it was like I went from
making a couple hundred bucks to making
four thousand in you know six months and
then hit some seasonality in the niche
things kind of slowed down traffic kind
of plateaued and it was it was all very
discouraging for a while through the
fall in the winter and it's really
exciting to see things kind of headed
back up right now finally starting off
2019 cool congratulations that's a huge
accomplishment and I assume when you got
started like you didn't have any idea
that you'd be able to make that much
just in a month or so no not at all I
mean I just I think I mentioned in our
original conversation but my plan was to
kind of work on this on the side and
while I look for a job and you know
whatever happened happened I get a
little side income but you know just
went better than I expected and then
yeah I mean I wouldn't believe that I
would end up you know at the kind of
level that I'm at cool cool well like I
said congratulations let's back up and
hear about you
so we're from what was your day job like
I know you're doing this full-time now
but yeah just give us a little
background yeah so I live in Atlanta
which I know you're familiar with been
here for about six or seven years my
background is really in writing so I've
always been always been interested in
writing did it for fun kind of coming
out of college I started doing some
freelance writing here and there
eventually I ended up with a digital
marketing agency in Atlanta and doing
some copywriting and kind of learned
content strategy and all that kind of
stuff and it was a really good
background for what I'm doing now
obviously from the agency then I went on
to write for like a really big news
viral type publisher kind of like a
BuzzFeed and that was also a really good
experience to more writing for the web
learning how to make stuff you know
clickable well packaged for social media
for search all that kind of stuff so
yeah I mean my background is really
really well suited to this I think and
you know like we talked about it was
almost a year ago it was last February
that I ended up
that job to uh to work on this and well
I thought I would get another job but
you know things didn't go that way so
gosh it did or how many years were you
in the content field with a corporate
job yeah probably a good five or six
years with a few extra years of side
writing and freelance writing on top of
that so you know at the digital agency
that I worked I was there for four or
five years and then with the big
publisher for about two or three so okay
how important do you feel like that
background was to help you write like
good content it was really really good I
mean just getting that practice of
writing a lot and writing in different
styles and writing about things that I
didn't know about necessarily you know I
had to hone a lot of good research
skills and good you know information
gathering skills and learned just
learning the basics of how to format how
to go into WordPress how to go into
other content management systems how to
use headers and bullets and you know
things that I take for granted now
because I've been doing them forever but
I know that when a lot of people get
started they're like oh my God look I'm
in WordPress what do I do you know so at
least is having that leg up and just
knowing basically how to write for the
web was a huge a huge leg up for me cool
and I mean you would expect that that
would be really valuable since that is
one of the main components so at this
point are you still doing all the
writing and that sort of thing yeah for
my own site uh I write almost everything
I've gone through phases where I've
hired pieces of it out but you know
sometimes as a writer it can be a little
Precious about the content and I've
revisited the thought a couple times of
like outsourcing more of it and and you
know I think at some point I may need to
remove myself as the bottle next to get
more done but you know I like doing the
writing for the most part and so I'm
happy to to keep working on it and I
think at this point like since so much
of the site is in your voice it's
probably you know easier and you have
the control over and all that stuff but
you're right like at some point you know
you want to get away from the laptop the
keyboard for a bit and just kind of
chill out so for sure yeah yeah one that
I have a list of ideas that a mile long
way more than I have time to ever write
so I mean I've got probably 15 or 20
things that I would love to get on the
site tomorrow you know but that's one of
the drawbacks of being one person to
working by yourself now do you
have like several sites or you're just
working on one so yeah in the last
summer I started a second one and uh I
just have been chipping away on it ever
since and it's growing really really
nicely I've got about 50 articles on
there traffic is really really growing
fast and and doing well can you give us
an idea of the traffic for that site
that's like six seven months old or so
yeah it's about seven months it might do
about twenty thousand page views this
month yeah so I'm pretty happy with the
way it's grown and for the the first
site how much content do you have there
I've got about 150 articles on there
okay
and I keep up I try and check on you
know shoot you an email so I check with
the success story folks just to see like
what's going on
so if I remember right you were you know
having a lot of content and doing some
things so can you tell us about your
plan on what you were going to do what
you actually did and like how the
results are right now yeah for sure so
you know what I've learned is that both
for me and I think for this business
like it's very process driven so my
goals in a week or a month or a quarter
or two is to do like X amount of
production and so like usually most
weeks I'm like all right I want to get
you know three or new articles about
five new articles left whatever it is
that's like 90% of what I spend my time
on because it's you know that's what
moves the business forward ultimately so
pretty much I just rolled with the same
process we talked about I mean I use the
kgr sometimes but in my site it's almost
two years old now and it's a little bit
more powerful and I feel comfortable
competing for for more competitive
things at this point so in some ways
I've graduated a little bit from it but
I definitely used as a gut check a lot
of times especially when I'm going for
those lower competition things so yeah I
mean I've just been adding a ton of
content I think probably since the time
we talked of about doubled the content
that I had and everything kind of came
to a head in in August that's when I
made about 5k on the site I had almost a
hundred thousand page views on the site
I was just like over the moon about it
because I that point I was still seeing
us crazy month-to-month growth and then
that's when the kind of the seasonality
hit of the niche which was you know not
devastating but it caused everything to
kind of like go down 20% or so and just
plateau for a couple months despite the
fact that I'd added all this new content
and I you know I've been working my ass
off so
a little bit discouraging to see that
like you know all that work I did up
through August and then in September
October November I was like ah I won't
traffic oh uh why am I not earning any
more monies though that was were kind of
a tough stretch even knowing that it was
seasonal but not really knowing for sure
right like you don't you want to see it
get to that next level before you really
believe that it's gonna happen so you
know and then you know I was all excited
for December being the buying season and
December was definitely better but it
wasn't like my niche is a January thing
for sure so I didn't see the big the big
boost that I wanted until I'm seeing it
right now so let me know sense yeah yeah
that's the basic story I'm just adding a
ton of content and you know splitting
time between the sites but I mean I
think this year I've written something
like 200 pieces of content or you know
most of those were written myself so
it's been a grind it's been a grind for
sure
Wow yeah that's crazy that's a lot of
content man did you do any link building
or have you done link building in the
past I did very early on in my site I
did like an infographic campaign right
yeah I went to 500 fiber up work made an
infographic that turned out pretty cool
promoted that around you know I got a
got a few links out of that but other
than that I've just been really focused
on ranking without the links you know
going for stuff I really feel strongly
that I can compete for based on the
content and this passed well you know
speaking of kind of getting burnt out on
writing this past month or so I've
really been working on Pinterest which
has been an awesome experience and I've
learned a lot doing that very cool well
I was gonna say one of the other success
stories Graham he just pinged me the
other day asking about Pinterest so what
can you tell us what have you learned on
the Pinterest side yeah I mean I think I
got to a point where a I needed a break
from writing be you know in certain
niches you know you're definitely doing
yourself a disservice if you're not at
least exploring Pinterest you know
parenting fitness DIY fashion recipes
like anything like that like you gotta
be on there I mean I was just totally
confused I had no idea of interest
worked at all I don't really use it in
my normal life so that was really
starting from scratch I considered just
hiring somebody to do it for me when I
was like you know what I want to stop I
want to break anyway let me just dive in
and see what I can do and so the things
that I've learned about Pinterest is
that it's it's so much more like Google
and I
right obviously it's a search engine
which makes it more valuable I think
than a Facebook or Twitter because it
has you know your content has more of a
shelf life and it can get in front of
people who are looking for specific
things so you know your product related
articles can actually do well on
pictures which is really cool but then
the other thing with Pinterest is that
there's a bit of a bit of a sandbox
period just like Google where you got to
be on there you got to be active and you
got to be a good member of the community
for a long period of time before they
start to trust you to serve your content
to people so that's biggest thing is I'm
just trying to be on there and pin stuff
every day and watch my reach just go up
and up and up right now if have you seen
a lot of traffic coming then at that
point I mean the the growth has been
really really good I mean on the main
site I'm getting anywhere from you know
25 to 100 do visitors a day through
Pinterest like actually come into my
site and so I think that's a pretty good
that's a pretty good start considering I
started at almost zero on the second
site which i think is even better suited
to Pinterest I'm getting like a couple
hundred people a day from Pinterest so
you know definitely seeing really good
returns early on awesome and do you see
a correlation between the pages or posts
that are getting traffic and the
rankings from Pinterest yeah that's a
great question I'm very interested to
see that play out myself because I I'm
new to it like I've only been actively
using Pinterest for a month or so so I
think it's a little early to tell now
but you know I I definitely think that
there's gonna be a correlation when
you're not getting do follow links from
Pinterest but you know Google still sees
them and they see that you're getting
traffic and engagement and people are
sharing your stuff so I would think over
time like you know I'll see a bit of a
bump on pieces that are doing well I
don't have very much experience with
Pinterest I've had a couple things go
viral by accident and sure there was a
correlation but there was also like
other things going on like link building
and other just activities to get eyes on
that piece of content so it's like you
can never quite tell like what is
helping with the rankings but sure yeah
it's really hard to isolate things like
that yeah but you have like going viral
on any platform is gonna be a good thing
you know you talk a lot about high-touch
types of processes and things that are
gonna be hard for people to duplicate
and I think you'll find that like
sometimes you may have a post that's not
ranking where you
want it to on Google or maybe she's not
ranking yet cuz it's too new or whatever
but it can still do very well in
Pinterest because your competitors
aren't there right so it's like you have
multiple channels for getting traffic
and engagement of stuff which is really
cool God and do you have any guides or
resources to recommend around Pinterest
like where you sort of got your game
plan yeah oh my god there's so much out
there and I was I was totally
overwhelmed at first and everyone wants
to sell you a course and everything I've
been listening to a podcast from a
company called simple pin media I
recommend going back through their
archives and and there's a lot of good
stuff in there about especially if you
have no idea and you're just kind of
starting out with it like me as far as
like conversions can can you get me or
do you have any insight on like if those
people are coming from Pinterest if
they're buying anything or yeah it's
probably a little early to tell for me
just because it's it's only been a month
or so but I'm definitely curious about
that and you know I think I mentioned
one of the really cool things is that if
you have like the best pens for
left-handed people like that would never
get traffic on Facebook or Twitter
because it's so specific but you know
people might go to Pinterest and
actually search for that or like
something close to it and so you know in
terms of buying intent I think you can
definitely get matches there but in
terms of perversions I don't have a good
data on that quite yet so we'll see and
I'm sure they talked about this in the
podcast you just mentioned but like I
imagine you have to have like the
correct like dimensions for a pinnable
image and then after that you could just
you pin it and then you're good to go
right yeah so I one of the big things is
that I don't want this to become a major
time stuck where I'm always just working
on this constantly so you know I'm
starting to get set up with tailwind
which is a scheduling app so you take 10
extra minutes after you write a post
make a good image for it you know maybe
take an hour on Monday and get your
whole week of pins scheduled and then
you can be done you know that's kind of
the workflow that I'm I'm shooting for
there's so many areas where it's like
yeah Red Mill of content which is why I
like you know you won't find me on
Twitter or Facebook very much or YouTube
turned out to be a treadmill of content
where I'm like what is going on like I
just like all I can do is pump out more
videos that I'm like this is not paying
off very
I know how many people like them you
know you're watching this right now but
it's like I know is it yeah where the
am I doing here like doing the same
videos over and over again somehow I
talked ended up talking about myself
when we're talking about Pinterest and
energy so so anyway yeah it's one of
those things that can get out of hand
because one has to be active on it you
can't just show up set it up and then
like go do something else so if you like
dropped off you would like potentially
lose that trust in the Pinterest
algorithm and stuff that was going on in
a positive way so yeah sure okay
all right so we were chatting beforehand
and you mentioned forming a company and
like kind of getting your your business
and order people asked me about this
often and usually it's like before
they've even started their site and I
was like settle down there you're
putting the cart before the horse here
it's just when she makes some money
you'll figure out how to solve that
problem in the future so where you at
right now I mean you're making good
money you're making full time money so
what's going on yeah so this has been a
process for sure yeah I don't think you
need to worry about it when you're not
making any money or making a couple
hundred bucks a month that's just that's
pretty simple to deal with but when you
start getting into that that point where
you making several thousand dollars a
month it becomes time to think about
going forward how are you gonna organize
the the structure of your business
because it is a business at that point
and it has you know has value right it
has it's an asset it brings you income
so you know I think you gotta meet with
an accountant and and follow their
advice mine told me to you know set up
an LLC do the S corp election which
means you're gonna get taxed like a
company and then you know to actually go
on with a payroll company so that I'm
getting like paychecks from my company
and then through that you're able to
shield some of your income from getting
that like double like self-employment
tax and so there's a lot that goes into
it a lot of forms to send the government
and a lot of kind of admin stuff that
goes on there but you know when you get
to that point where you're making four
or five six thousand dollars a month
like it's important yes that's exactly
what I did basically a couple little
things are different like with Alma's
across states or whatever but yeah
essentially you nailed it I talked to
your accountant and one thing I did from
the very beginning
I just happen to have like a separate
checking account in a separate yeah
credit card account like at the
beginning so I put everything on those
now I was sort of using it for some
personal stuff like in the first year or
so but then I stopped using it and then
you know got other credit cards they're
so easy to get they'll just send you so
you can like if you have it separate
it's very easy to pull the CSV s and
basically everything separate what when
it becomes an issue or a way that you
may find yourself confused is if you
have your family's full like financial
structure or whatever you have the
checking account and you have the credit
card and everything's jumbled and then
you have to look through every single
transaction if you silo it off then it's
like it's simple you just pull that
report you're good to Cal for sure and
that's it that's something that I just
got set up I get I just went into the
bank the other day and opened up
separate business accounts cuz it is
like it's really messy when your income
is coming into like the family account
and then pre the payroll stuff like
which I'm still setting up like you've
got to take out your own tax money so
money comes in then you gotta take the
taxes outside I'm aside and she's very
very messy and so yeah the better the
more separate you can have those things
for the better and my on my account even
said like you'll make better business
decisions when it's all separate and you
can see it separately and you start
thinking of it like a business and not
just like your side income a hundred
percent yeah it's funny now that you're
mentioning it like I forget because I've
I've done it for a done this for a
little while but like I was like saving
a ton right because I knew I'd
eventually have to pay taxes so I was
always saving like you know forty
percent cuz I mean it wasn't quite sure
so I was always saving 40% once you hit
a certain level you're probably at the
point where you're gonna need to start
paying quarterly because the IRS will
penalize you this is for us folks I'm
sure it translates other places too but
like they'll start to penalize you for
not paying in advance when you like
should have known that you were making
so much it is hard to predict right
because your income is jumping and like
you know next year it'll be a little
more confusing and you could make some
assumptions and you know see how well
your guesses are but yeah
and then I'm trying to think if there's
other stuff every now and then I'll get
a comment where someone's like I can't
believe you're paying so much in taxes
and I can't either
right because it usually I throw out
like forty to fifty percent but like I
don't know maybe I'm gonna taking
advantage of all the loopholes or
something like that but people think you
could like write off all this stuff but
like you can write off things that you
are buying like as an expense but the
money is gone right like I don't have to
like it's gone now so I've spent the
money so and that's not exactly what I'm
trying to do so if I like had very
little profit then right I don't have to
pay much taxes but yeah so what are you
finding like you know you did the LLC
the S corp so you're not you don't have
to pay the double amount on its Social
Security we're getting deep in the weeds
but I think people care about this yeah
unemployment unemployment tax and then
Social Security and there may be like
one other thing in there but usually
it's about 15% right mm-hmm yeah so
you're gonna you have to pay income tax
obviously on what you make and then
that's the part that sucks is you're
getting double dipped on the those extra
taxes that you know you wouldn't have to
pay the employers portion if you worked
for your company so yeah basically the
way I understand it is with the S Corp
and if you structure the payouts
properly like you can take about half of
your income and protect it from that
extra 15% tax or something like that and
so any other cool thing about going on
with the payroll company was is what I'm
trying to set up now is that they will
just handle a lot of that like they'll
just take the taxes out of your check
like you would normally if you worked
for a normal company you never see it
you never have to worry about it gotcha
yeah and it gets a little confusing
because I'm sure people are like well my
company pays for this Social Security
and that's exactly it so your company
that you would you would work for they
would pay the unemployment taxes Social
Security but if you have no company you
are the company then you have to pay
your half and you have to pay the
company's half right so if you're unsure
what I'm talking about go like to your
pay stub or your last pay stub and have
a look at it and you'll see like you
paid some Social Security and some other
stuff and then your
we're also paid part of that too or they
paid in addition and I'm sure something
accountant is probably yelling at the
yelling guys right now like you guys you
don't know what you're talking about so
go talk to a professional because
evident I don't know what we're talking
about yeah and I would urge people even
if you're just starting out and you're
just making a little bit a month like
just be be mindful of it because you
don't want to surprise at tax time if
you made an extra two thousand dollars
last year
and you didn't save any of it like
you're not gonna be happy so just be
aware of it yep and it's about like one
third is a good estimate cuz you'll have
to pay you know your state most likely
if you have income tax at your state and
then you know the high RS so now we
didn't talk much about like your why so
you mentioned you you quit your job or
you left your job in February of 2018
and you were just gonna do this on the
side so obviously things are working out
well but can you tell us like just a
little bit about your why and like
you're sticking with it and all that
stuff yeah yeah I'm glad you brought
that up because I think that's a big
part of it I don't know like I felt like
for years I had this sort of growing
discontent and even like contempt for
modern workplaces like yeah and I had a
lot of trouble putting it into words
well I'm like why why do I feel so
anyway like hate this so much why do I
hate like corporate culture and what do
I hate you know all these stupid things
you're expected to do and like why is it
not resonate with my soul why do I just
feel like this is wrong you know I knew
that was kind of growing and building in
me but it was when I read the 4-hour
workweek actually that it it all kind of
hit me and I was like yes that this is
exactly what I've been feeling and I
just couldn't put it into words you know
it's not that I don't like to work hard
it's not that I don't like to tackle
projects or make money it's just that
you know the modern workplace just
doesn't doesn't sit with me you know the
fact that you you know not only are you
there for so many hours a week but you
know I think in today's world like so
much of you is the best in your job like
your social media profiles are your
brand and you have to go to extra
professional development things and you
have to be a part of the company culture
and buy-in and all these things that may
not have anything to do with your work
they're they're kind of like siphoning
off a portion of your soul and your
personality and you know it's a lot to
ask right like do I did I want that long
and I really did that's kind of my why
it just I felt like I would be happier
working for myself and just betting on
me to do the hard work and if it fails
and it's on me and if it succeeds and I
reap all the benefits of it and you know
and it's great to be able to do extra
things for my family like I can stop
working at any time in the day and like
go to the grocery store clean up running
errands you know pick my daughter from
school like whatever needs to be done
like I'm very very flexible and so
that's a really cool thing to have yeah
I can't remember the exact line in the
4-hour workweek but it was something
like like a comfortable life of like
discontent or something like that and I
was like yeah that's the worst when you
have a pretty good job but it's like
unfulfilled you're generally like not
too happy about having to go in if
you're in Atlanta or another big city
with traffic like getting to the office
even if you're close by can be stressful
just in general so I totally understand
it when did you read the 4-hour workweek
it was last year really last year at
some point I read it not sure exactly
why I think I just cuz I had heard about
it everyone's heard of heard the title
floating around and I was just like yeah
let me give this a shot and it just
resonated with me really really deeply
nice so you just said you read it early
last year and then you quit in February
so you're pretty good about it
yeah I think I actually quit before and
then because of all those things I
mentioned I was like you know I was
ready to move on from that job but I
didn't know that I was ready to move on
from all jobs you know what I mean right
right now your revenue has grown quite a
bit since we talked last and just
curious on like goal-setting like did
you have like a specific amount in your
mind how are you approaching this in
what are your goals safer this year the
next few months I think that the the
name of your course kind of always
sticks out to me like five bigger in
each side like in terms of a high level
goal like making five figures a month
relatively passively would be amazing
right like tunas ain't worked up keep it
and to build it and and all that and to
grow from there but I feel like I'll be
a really really good level to gets you
but I think for me like I think I
mentioned this I'm such a I'm a process
oriented person like I'm a production
oriented person so most of my
goals are about the work that I want to
get done and I was listening to an
interview with the guy who founded
Basecamp which is like he probably know
biggest camps like a file-sharing
messaging platform for like project
management and he was saying that in
their company they they don't even do
like financial goals they have project
goals and they're like we're gonna do
cool and good things will happen
you know and I found that to be the case
already like I can't predict you know I
thought I was gonna make so much more
money in December and like it didn't
happen and now I'm seeing the results of
it so I just feel like if I keep pushing
and I keep if I doubled my content I
could probably roughly double my income
you know but I don't know exactly like
you know if I gave you a number at the
pulling it out of my ass so yeah right I
think I heard the same interview or a
similar one so it's so it's Basecamp
well we could get some links to it too
but it's a Jason freed and David DHH I
forget his last name yeah I can't
remember it's interesting that you bring
that up because there's a couple of
people that have mentioned it so those
guys and then Scott Adams who is the
Dilbert cartoonist and author and stuff
like that and he mentions that in one of
his books so use systems right so use
systems because you can keep working at
it if you set a goal it's binary you hit
it or you did not so if you were aiming
for name any amount for December of last
year and you missed it you were like I
failed my goal like that's it you worked
all year long you failed it and it
sucked or you could say hey I'm gonna be
putting so much content high quality you
have certain metrics and like you find
joy luckily in like executing the
project doing the system and all that
I'm exactly the same way when I did some
of the case studies that I share usually
it was just like here's the thing we're
gonna do and we can make some
assumptions about what will happened you
should always look and make some guesses
but like the goal was to execute the
project not necessarily to get the you
know exact return or whatever yeah
exactly and I think you have to enjoy
the work to some degree I mean I think
that like too many people in this
industry are looking for shortcuts they
want someone to
them all the keywords right all the
content for them you know maybe by a
done-for-you site and it's like I don't
know man I don't know if that's gonna
work out like you got a you got to get
something out of waking up and actually
doing the work every day I mean I have
post that I wrote six months ago they're
still seeing incremental gains in
traffic every month like it takes a long
time you know if you're doing things the
right way so you know you better buckle
in and just you know get to work and
keep your head down keep moving and like
not to say you shouldn't adjust and look
at your strategy and see if it's working
but you know if it's working just do
what you got to do to keep doing more of
it and and you know the results will
come exactly if I remember right you
started your sites like the first site
that one just may think the majority of
the money you started your site and
worked on it for something like eight
months or something before you started
using the kgr so it's been a little
while since you were in those early
stages but do you have any advice for
people that maybe haven't quite got
started yet I mean my advice would be to
start to get to start as soon as
possible and just stop screwing around
with themes and plugins and and logos
and like just get in there I mean no
one's gonna see your content for a
couple of months anyway and you're gonna
need a lot of it so the sooner you can
get going is you know the better off
you're gonna be you know I just wish I
had started earlier - right I wish I had
like I had the site like you said for
you know six to eight months or
something like that before I really
buckle down and got serious about
producing content that was actually
gonna make me money so I could be a lot
far more than long if I just started
started earlier but you know it's part
of the journey right I mean the first
like six to eight months are really
tough so how did you stick with it like
what kept you motivated and this was
before you quit your job and all that
stuff so mm-hmm
yeah well I think I mentioned in our
first interview that I just started it
like as a hobby because I like I like
writing and I like you know he would
research and content and stuff and so I
had some vague idea that maybe I would
do something with the site at some point
but you know I wrote articles that were
interesting to me within the niche
because like it's a niche that I'm
personally involved in and I know a
little bit about so that helps I wasn't
too worried about the growth like I
would just write stuff and you know
suddenly like oh after a couple months I
saw it's starting to grow and grow and
and then I was like okay how can I
actually make this like profitable at
this point like cuz it is getting
traction I am seeing traffic you know
and that's kind of when I came on the
kgr the
was great for me because it just gave me
a blueprint for like okay I can follow
this and I can write a ton of content
like you don't I mean it wasn't it
allowed me to see the bigger picture of
like how I can do this over and over and
over again and get to a goal nice do you
have any tips on finding kgr terms
they're not that hard to find I mean I
think you know your kgr playlists really
covers a lot of this but my best trick
is taking you know stem keywords and
adding all kinds of different modifiers
to them like so if it's if we're talking
about a product article like that the
best pens like best pens with best pens
without best pens for best pens any kind
of modifying phrase you can add after
that like you're gonna get a ton of
ideas and the Google autosuggest and
related searches and you know that's
simply where I do most of my work is
right in Google with with keywords
everywhere giving me the volume and I
just kind of go down that rabbit hole
I like those techniques as well and
people should check out the keyword
golden ratio masterclass if they haven't
yet given a lot of other suggestions
like that but I think you're right it's
just like once you start finding some
like you'll sort of develop your own
technique your style and like get a
rhythm too and then you'll be able to
find a whole lot more so it sounds like
once you sort of got into it you didn't
have any issue finding a bunch of
keywords no no no I mean you got a once
you get the hang of it like it's not
it's not too difficult and you know you
can't worry about if the volumes low
like you know definitely go for those
ten searches a month forty searches a
month some of my best pieces of traffic
wise are from keywords that said they
would give me 40 searches a month or 60
I mean like in my experience you'll
you'll get anywhere from 3 to 30 times
that number like when you if you ranked
number one for it so yeah it's crazy
when you're ranked number one it really
changes the equation there so one other
thing that you mentioned Evan was you're
not using the kgr as much maybe you'll
have a look if you're maybe you find
some area that you haven't covered much
but I guess what gave you the confidence
to like branch out from the kgr I think
that I just tried it in little doses
like I would I did a lot of kgr content
especially over the summer and slowly I
started to we have some wiggle room with
the volume I'd go for 300 500 search
volume terms I would do like
you know one here and there where it
wasn't a cage er but I think the ones
that encouraged me to do that where
where it wasn't kgr but like I would
look at the results and they all they
all sucked and I was like well I was
like well I can go for this it doesn't
matter this kgr not like I can
definitely compete because there's no
result for it right so it was like kind
of learning with training wheels and
then and then slowly like taking them
off as I as I found that I could rank
for other things and you know and your
site will grow more powerful as it gets
older you know yeah there's just some
things that I don't think you can rank
for with a young sight but over time you
get to you can get more competitive
definitely okay cool
and I inadvertently like I guess not
mislead but a lot of people are like hey
I'm doing the I'm gonna publish 200
posts all kgr I'm gonna do no no link
building I would never recommend that
specifically if someone made it in this
you have 40 minutes into our
conversation like here's a good nugget
like the examples that I give the case
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