Agency Level Backlinks- Adam Steele of Loganix #Best Education Page #Online Earning

hey what's going on it's Doug Huntington

here and in this interview I talked to

Adam steal from loge annex he's the

founder of log annex and they are an

agency that specializes in link building

and I've been testing them out for a few

months I've been super happy with the

results from their guest posting service

so before I started working with them

actually didn't know anything about loge

annex they reached out to me one in two

you know just connect and when I first

visited their site I thought hey these

these folks are legit because I see that

brian dean has a testimonial right there

on the home page so Adam and I you know

exchanged a couple emails it looked like

we had a few things in common and we

talked about getting started with SEO

and how he got his start we talked about

like a plan like a link building plan

for brand new sites as well which is

pretty cool and one thing to note is

loge annex sort of specializes in

providing services for SEO s like us or

other agencies that need like sort of

White Glove high end link building so

without further ado let's get to the

interview now hey what's going on is

Doug Huntington here and welcome to the

Doug show I'm sitting with Adam Steele

of loge annex how's it going today it's

going really well Doug how are you doing

doing awesome

I'm fresh back from vacation so I'm a

little rusty so this is a couple false

starts here but we're good to go now so

you and I sort of connected recently you

run basically a sort of a link building

company right and for the other people

that don't know you that well can you

give a little intro about yourself and

what you do at your company sure so my

name is Adam Steele I've been doing SEO

and maybe more specifically link

building for about ten years now

just shy of I suppose and loge annex the

company that we've run since more or

less day

does link building when we do a couple

other things but for the most part our

bread and butter is link building so

things like guest post outreach or

manual outreach on behalf of clients we

do a little bit of citation building so

we'll have a a bunch of different

citation related products or GMB related

products and finally some sort of higher

tier placement so placements on big

sites with you know 10 20 50 million

organics per month that type of stuff so

sort of the gamut of of SEO services and

our main customer tends to be either

agencies or folks with you know maybe

like a marketing director or something

knows what he's he or she is doing but

you know wishes to not train a team

wishes to not have the headcount and so

just sources it out to us and and we

take care of them

God and how did you get started with

like SEO in general I mean 10 years is a

very long time in this industry so yeah

what was your sort of gateway in yeah

gateway is a good word yeah my gateway

drug was affiliate marketing as it was

for many many folks and I was introduced

in affiliate marketing at an affiliate

marketing company I worked in compliance

so I essentially looked at incoming

traffic whether it be generated by email

or display ads or what-have-you and just

make sure that everything was legit and

if it wasn't then scrub it for our

advertisers and so that exposed me to to

SEO certainly but also to social ads and

email and and many other sort of traffic

channels and so from there I left the

affiliate marketing company and started

my own agency trying to take some of the

traffic generation ideas that I had seen

folks the affiliates as sort of engaging

in and then trying to take those same

approaches for for clients like small

medium-sized businesses

so that's was my first sort of foray

into internet marketing how long were

you at that first company where you know

you got paid to learn it sounds like

yeah it was sort of a paid allure an

experience I was there for all of

something like six months and then just

sort of I think I got to the point where

I had seen enough enough affiliates

making ridiculous money and they're all

it's so weird they're so young so I

could see myself in them essentially

like I just figured well here's and

here's I think I was in my early early

20s at the time so here's a 21 year old

or so and we're just about to send him a

check for six figures for a month's work

and I'm just like what the hell is going

on here and so you know the the glamour

and whatnot caught my eye and I just

figured I could maybe do it myself

figure it out and what which are

educational background or did you have

any other sort of marketing experience

before you were in at that agency

accounting I was an accounting student I

my my pop was or his accountant and so I

had imagined a life in accounting cuz he

had done quite well and it seems like a

good fits and he had his own accountancy

so just just sort of made sense so I was

in what was previously called the

Chartered Accountants the CA program

program and I got maybe two and a half

years before I bailed okay gotcha see

never you got started but you didn't

finish get your degree okay no not cool

smart it's like you got so I just enough

medical people experience university and

moved on so and I mentioned before I we

kind of go on tangents and were you

located by the way Vancouver British

Columbia Canada okay cool so I just I

went on this vacation and I drove to

Alaska from Colorado so it's a pretty

long Wow and we came back through

Vancouver which was beautiful by the way

but if you

they're a long time yeah either

Vancouver or Victoria which is on

Vancouver Island just off the coast of

Vancouver okay for the majority of my

life I've lived up as far as do you know

where the Yukon is you probably would

have passed through there on the way to

Alaska I imagine we drove yeah so I I

lived in Whitehorse for my first was

think kindergarten through two great

three I want to say something like that

okay cool yeah to realize every way yes

oh so cool

yeah I haven't been there in a very long

time I'm sure it's changed a bunch but

that you drew drove through some

beautiful countryside along the way

it's a beautiful forest yeah it's like

indescribable like Canada is so big

everyone's so nice you already know that

but one thing I was gonna bring up is

like everyone always told me like hey me

and Coover's fantastic you would love it

I like sort of out you know outdoorsy

kind of stuff and all that was fine but

I've after I talked to some folks I've

heard in the last couple years it's just

changed quite a bit in Vancouver

maybe traffic's a little worse a lot of

just real estate prices or bananas and

stuff just curious have you observed the

same thing yeah absolutely

okay there's been a lot of a lot of

immigration into Vancouver and with that

came a lot of money and a lot of that

money was put into homes many of which

are which are and are or were empty and

so our government's been working really

hard somewhat successfully maybe at

putting taxes into place to sort of

regulate that a little bit but and and

the market has certainly slowed since

but that type of investment triggered a

lot of change in Vancouver for better or

force so yeah definitely our the price

the cost of living here in Vancouver

it's always been I think relatively

expensive but certainly in the past you

know five to ten years it's it's

skyrocketed everything

someone was saying I was there's a woman

visiting from from the UK I was talking

with her and said she pays about a pound

or I don't know what that the equivalent

or the conversion is but I imagine it's

not too far from one to one or maybe one

to one point four or something like that

but she pays a pound for a pineapple and

she goes to the grocery store here in

Vancouver and at seven bucks which you

know works out to be you know let's say

five and a half American or something

like that

that's really cheap because like I'm

paying closer to what your the price

that you measure I'm there yeah I guess

there's pineapples closer to I don't

know I don't know I guess we get him

from Hawaii or something like that but

okay anyway let's get back on topic and

appreciate the digression there I mean

it was super interesting like traveling

and you know checking all that stuff out

and to get a you know a locals opinion a

native to Vancouver so okay sure back to

SEO let's let's get into it so you've

been doing SEO for quite a while and

obviously there's a lot of algorithm

updates that Google pushes out so how

have you dealt with that over the years

sounds like you've successfully

navigated those waters so what can you

tell us about that

I think I don't I certainly don't claim

to be there's a lot of more technical

SEO s in the technical SEO definition

sense but also just more technical SEO s

if that makes sense then myself and so

for me SEO was never a super super

passion and thus I never dug in quite as

much as as some other folks so I tend to

tended to stick to what I knew and what

I could understand and what I cared

enough to to read up on and and practice

and that kind of thing and what that

ended up being is just sort of the

basics like what what has worked since

the beginning and continues to work now

and those tend to be things around

content and structuring content and all

that kind of stuff link building link

building has always been you know going

back-to-back and when and I think it was

a AOL or something like that had a

business directory and they're selling

links in that business directory for

like 400 bucks or something like that

like that I don't know how many years

ago that was but very long time because

well before I even started so I just

have focused on the core things and then

everything if I can't achieve the

results that I require with just the

core principles or core tenants of SEO

then that's when I hire smarter people

than myself to do the more technical

stuff so for me personally I've just

stopped to to the basics and try to be

really really good or I should even say

that just tried to do as well as I could

at the basics and and not serve me

pretty well I find I've hired a number

of SEO in the past and the ones that

we've kept are the ones that don't

lose themselves in the details it's very

easy the loop users lose yourself in

these little minut details that have

very little SEO benefit and spent too

much time doing sort of the 80% that

doesn't provide any of the value sort of

thing and we've sort of always been

about focusing on that that 20% that

provides 80% of the value and so that's

that's sort of in how I've approached it

over the years nice I I find myself

doing the same sort of thing that you

mentioned like here's some core stuff

that mostly works most of the time and

if you stick to that you do it pretty

good like you'll do okay generally those

are like a little bit less risky they're

not necessarily going to work like as

fast is may be trendy flash-in-the-pan

kind of thing which is fine because I

mean I think you and your clients and me

and other folks that I work with it's

like we won a long term sort of more

secure less risky situation and I take

it you're working with pretty big

businesses so they don't want to mess

around with potentially the livelihood

of the business so it totally makes

sense I guess quick summary so you were

like link building in a you know

conservative way and then just

straight-up solid content right more or

less and then just you know just being

good at on-site just basic on-site stuff

just just talking basics I think just

people forget about just the basics

doing the basics really well and then

then you can you know approach

everything else and think about how you

might improve you know click-through

rate and the SERPs and you might occupy

more real estate in the SERPs and you

know be it through scheme or other

things so do the simple staff first and

then and then get to the more

complicated time intensive budget

intensive types of of things okay so

let's let's go into some of the content

stuff so you were like just do some of

those basic on-site SEO things correctly

so I'm

some of that is around like the title

some subheadings images can you just

kind of hit a checklist of some of the

things that you know people should be

looking at 4 on page yeah I the list is

is long and I certainly don't have it

memorized and I certainly don't claim to

be able to just name them off or

anything like that it's not something I

personally spend a lot of time on

anymore but you know one of the sort of

again sort of main sort of tenants of

our approach and certainly other

people's approach it's not not new or

anything but as we tend to just kind of

approach everything from a surf level so

look at the the keywords that's that

we're after look at who's presently

ranking look at sort of the average of

those folks like what is the average

effort what's the average content look

like what what's working essentially and

then create our strategy around around

that and so when we what we did try to

previous to that is we would just go all

out as many words as we could squeeze on

a page like just crazy crazy stuff that

would take us a lot of time and

sometimes not be particularly great

quality and cost a lot of money

oftentimes and we've since scaled that

back quite a bit and just take taken a

very sort of surf focused approach to

the work that we do so we pull up all

the websites that are ranking for that

particular keyword just take notes on

what what types of things we're seeing

what is the average of the things that

we're seeing and how can we just do

slightly better than than that average

and then we would go out and and do that

and that's everything from content

structure how they're structuring that

particular content is it a list that

seems to be winning or does it seem to

be more of an editorial style piece

that's working how many shares are these

particular pieces receiving so we know

how much you know how much effort we

need to put on the sort of social side

of things with the content promotion

side of things and all those sort of

things obviously there's a lot of sort

of basics and just writing content and

writing the titles around the content

and simple things like title

Meta Description what-have-you but I

think that stuff is generally more well

and well understood and it's usually

again sort of the bit details where

people are losing themselves and not

just focusing on what what is proven to

work what is Google basically serving us

on a platter and saying hey this is

what's going to work so just do this

don't don't go to too too crazy got it

I like the simplicity there you have

data that you can analyze it's free you

can go look at it

so totally that's awesome so when you

have like a new client I take it you do

sort of an audit of like what I guess

where do their hats in potential

keywords that they're going for you'll

do that audit for them that sort of

thing or how does that work I'm just

curious about you know new person comes

in and then they hire you for like a

managed services kind of deal sure I

should just sort of at the outset

mentioned that that is a sort of very

small part of the business that we do

manage services we so to proceed being a

bigger part of it as supposing that we

can get the price to a point where it

makes sense for agencies like an agency

is typically taking in two three maybe

four thousand dollars like on average

per month from from a client so we've

got a price ourselves accordingly and

that's it's been tricky to do over the

years so it's never been a huge part of

our business so typically when we get a

client it's it's an agency or it's

somebody who really knows what they want

already and so we're looking through a

much more sort of narrow lens than

looking at you know the whole website

and saying okay you know these are sort

of the the biggest opportunities for you

but you know what it does come to you

know client approaching us typically

we're the first question we ask us is

what is your your outcome like what

don't tell me the tasks there's a lot of

times they come to me with the tasks

because that's how they're used to

working so it'll be like you know I'm

gonna need some citations I'm gonna need

this and that's all great more whatnot

but you know if you do want our consult

I need to know what is sort of the the

ideal outcome for you or what is the

ideal outcome for your client what if

they hired you could do what is the net

result that they want and then we just

kind of reverse engineer whatever it is

that they want by usually looking at

their competitors who are kicking ass

doing whatever it is that they want and

put together a plan based on based on

that again not trying to reinvent the

wheel or anything just looking at what's

working in that particular Serpa men

advising accordingly so we might say you

know it looks like this clients you know

this competitors link velocity has been

such for so long and they already have

you know you know an average domain rank

of you know longer they're referring

domains of X so and yours is this so we

need to get ours at least up to you know

so at this point and we might start

saying okay well in order to do that we

need to be acquiring links of sort of

this quality in this quantity and so to

put together a little bit of a plan for

them again not money that that sort of

very customized approach is not super

super formal and that we're putting

together this huge document it's usually

something that is just a conversation

you know we've just somebody one of our

clients would would say hey could I bug

you for a little bit of your time I get

on the phone with them and we just go

through it together and just trying to

identify the best opportunities for you

know for their buck you know so nothing

too crazy quite honestly got it that

makes sense so shifting gears a little

bit let's say there's some beginners out

there which I guess most people are

beginners or they haven't started yet so

what are some common mistakes that they

make with SEO whether it's on page or

off page or whatever

just advice that you can give

yeah hmm well the first one that came to

mind it may be Oh

it'll help me think of other ones but

the first one that came to mind is what

seems to be I often take for granted

what I think everybody knows and often

not quite so many people as I think

he'll but what I know anyway um anyways

there we did a study not too long ago of

maybe only a week ago around the

correlation between Google my business

rankings and organic rankings and so uh

there seems to be there's enough people

I think that imagine that they don't

have to be ranking super well

organically to rank well in Google my

business and that might be true and

small like not so competitive markets

but our research when we you know

basically looked at a bunch of different

metros actually varying sized

populations we didn't want to just focus

on metros we wanted to do cities of you

know multi million population we wanted

to do some of the six figures and we

wanted to do some of those sort of five

figure population and we did a whole

whack of different professions so it

might have been dentist locksmiths try

to try to sort of really run the gamut

of different types of industries or

niches and essentially what we

determined or I guess we could say we

found some correlation was that the

better organic rankings you had the more

likely you were to show up and Google my

business or show up well in Google my

business site top three for example

there is really clear correlation

between the top three listings in Google

my business so to answer your question I

think there is not enough attention

placed on organic rankings when the goal

is to rank well in Google my business

folks tend to just not spend enough time

there the other one that comes to mind

also related to local search is

tend to spend more time than they need

to on citation building it's I think in

the last you know a few years citation

building itself is has become less maybe

not maybe not less important but just it

doesn't need to occupy as much time as

perhaps we put into it previously and so

what I usually recommend folks do is

they start with an audit of their

existing citations that's something that

that we offer it's seven bucks super

super cheap delivers very quickly and

gives them a sort of a lay of the land

citation wise and from there they're

able to sort of decide okay well I you

know my competitors have X amount of

citations I should probably have you

know what a Y amount of citations so I

just recommend people just get that out

of the way right away do it in one shot

you know maybe it's a hundred citations

get it over with and move on and don't

don't revisit it or don't make it this

monthly effort or anything because it's

it's not that big of a chunk of sort of

the pie if you will so get it done and

move on to things like reviews on your

Google my business page or more

importantly problem I believe the

organic rankings so work on on your your

link building so the two things that

come to mind right oh wait right away

that that I see quite often gadget cool

you know I will give you you sort of

implicitly said this earlier where I'll

rephrase and just give you this answer

it's basically like people skipping over

the basics or maybe spending too much

time on things that don't really matter

or it's like to get to like ninety nine

percent to ninety nine point five

percent like they're doing these things

spending all this time and really they

should spend their time on like the

basic four or five things they're like

we know those work and they get you 80%

of the way there and I see it all the

time and I mean frankly I can't blame a

new person there's all this information

coming at him people are trying to sell

products you know I'm guilty of it I'm

you're guilty of it a little bit too

right like we're all trying to sell

something or other but it's hard to

distinguish for a beginner like what's

really important and what's not because

everyone is saying hey this is the most

important thing you have to do X so I

just no I I mean I did it in the

beginning to where I was like doing all

this stuff thinking it mattered and

really it was just like one guy once did

it and then it kind of worked for him

but he wasn't sure and then I listened

to him and then you know I'm chasing my

tail around so any comments on that sort

of idea or if not that's okay yeah yeah

we talked about that a little bit we

only have you know four clients and even

four you know affiliate sites and

whatnot we only have so much budget to

spend on our projects so we have to be

intelligent about how we spend that and

so I'm not saying don't do those small

things like we've been playing around a

lot with like FAQ schema and things like

that and it's made a big difference in

our click-through rates

believe it or not you'd think that

people would you know just get their

information from those schema that from

the FAQ schema and boom they don't they

don't need to go to your website but

that's not been the case at all having

that extra chunk of serve people are

still clicking on that link and more so

than then pre FAQ schema so that the

little things are still important but if

I've got a thousand bucks per month to

spend on a project

I'm not putting $800 into those little

things I'm putting $800 into the things

that have worked for a very long

time and continue to work and then I'm

putting $200 into the little things that

are going to make sort of the

incremental incremental differences so

yeah all right so we got some juicy link

building questions we're gonna get to in

a second but before we do very

interested in hearing like your story

and transition from an employee at an

agency to starting your own agency I

don't know how many people are on your

team now I imagine it's quite a few

given the amount of work that you're

doing but can you just talk about like

from employee to business owner and

someone who needs to scale work with

clients and all that stuff

I had a I had a couple influences in my

life early on that were business owners

and that I including my dad that I just

I really looked up to and I looked at

their lifestyle and I could imagine that

being my own I that the hard work didn't

I liked the hard work they put in crazy

amounts of hours so that that didn't

bother me and it just it just was super

attractive to me I'm just you know we

didn't have a lot of money growing up

until kind of later on and I could just

see how these oh nice dog oh thanks

Georgie

I love Georgie do you want to come over

here thank you

Oh cute anyways I so I just I I just

looked at the lifestyle that I could

have if I applied myself and sort of

[Music]

just did what I understood that they did

and accounting obviously didn't wasn't

the thing but my the other influence my

buddy's father was he was into internet

marketing as well and I can't remember

exactly which sort of part of internet

marketing but I just I saw him traveling

speaking all these types of things and I

thought man I could I could do that I

could have that lifestyle and so from

there on and this was early on this was

high school for sure from then on I

think I kind of knew that that was the

direction I'd be going in eventually I

just had to find the thing and as a high

schooler I didn't really know the thing

I thought I was accounting and then

later on I figured out it was something

else but so from there I just like I

said you know I worked for that

affiliate marketing agency for a little

bit six months or so and then it just

I think it was just naivete but I just I

believed I could do it I could do it

right now and and so I just I quit and

there's just I think for that everybody

has a different personality from me I

have sort of the camera whoo-hoo phrases

it this way I want to say it's Tony

Robbins but he says burn the boats and

and that was kind of the thing I just I

took the leap and I didn't have it I

felt like I didn't have a choice but to

succeed especially as I told more and

more people about what I was doing I

felt this sort of social pressure that I

couldn't let all these people down like

I would be ashamed to let them down

because I it just I just couldn't and so

I just I took what little I knew I tried

to sell the clients totally failed at

that because they could tell I didn't

know what I was doing I could I could

see it and I remembered they had

introduced at the agency or the the

affiliate marketing company that

introduced me to internet marketing

forums and so I had an account already

just from doing compliance on wicked

fire was China we were trying to spy

you know our affiliates who may be

bragging about doing you know sending

junk traffic and things like that so we

spend a lot of time kind of digging

around there and seeing what people were

doing and so that's where I started I

just started learning from the people

that were on that forum trying to

emulate what they were doing and I

actually just found my first buy sell

trade thread at the time the company

that I the name of the company I had

come up with was creature local and I

found this thread it was from 2010 I

think November 2010 and I had just

looked at what other people were doing

on the buy sell trade threads and I just

more or less copied them I come up with

a couple ideas it didn't sell super well

at first so I ended up selling Gmail

addresses so again I'd seem that some

people were selling Gmail addresses to

people who were I guess automating

social bookmarks and things

like that so I just I literally just

started creating Gmail addresses by the

hundred and packing them up and selling

them and that was good because if I be I

created trust among that community and

so when I did come out with you know

once they started to recognize that I

could do other things there was already

that trust component and so from there I

went to selling them citations and then

links and all that kind of stuff and

very quickly like all my team are

contractors always happen they are

abroad their remote distributed as they

say and my first hire John was back then

in 2010 he's still with me many of the

folks that we hired back then are

strangely still with us and we just it's

kind of snowballed from from there and

and today I think give or take we're 15

full timers give or take and then a

bunch of like part-timers that we either

pay you know wave they only do 20 hours

a week or maybe we pay them on a unit

like per unit basis you know we pay them

X for one citation or or Y for ten

citations or what-have-you

so yeah that's that's that's sort of the

story if you will yeah that's all I mean

I like how you got started just about as

small as you can doing like a little bit

after you that sounds like you you tried

to sell some services to clients but

they were like yeah we don't get so yeah

Adams but then you were like okay I got

to approach this differently you

iterated and then you slowly grew more

work than you could handle and you just

slowly hired people over time right yeah

at some point I couldn't create all

those emails myself

so somebody somebody needed to help me I

remember being on this it was sort of my

first first vacation since becoming a

business owner and quite honestly

thinking back on it I had no business

being on that vacation I was broke and I

did it anyways and I remember spending

the entire vacation sitting on

the on the balcony on my laptop building

either citations myself so submitting to

people to Yelp and the like and creating

Gmail addresses and that was my first

vacation is awesome where were you have

it was Mexico I think yeah hexaco I mean

living the dream you're like near a

beach but not on it you can see it maybe

from where you are at I got close yeah

seeing like that that's the rough part

like with owning your business right if

you go on vacation and someone's

covering for you it's your corporate job

it's like who cares they'll figure it

out you know they can't reach me but

like nowadays we're just connected by

our phone and like at all times anyone

can bug you so interesting so you you

said you got about 15 people

now just curious do you have like some

org structure in place or is it pretty

flat everybody reports to you yeah

there's some structure it's it's a work

in progress it's never it's kind of like

a web website it's never done you're

always picking at it you're never really

happy with it

it's a labor of love and so you know

every month or two I'm adjusting the org

structure and trying to find something

trying to identify where people are

there where camp people are strongest

and put them in that you know put them

in the position that sort of best

matches the outcome that I'm looking for

match them to the outcomes essentially

and yeah it's it's an it's a never

ending thing I to many people report to

me presently I'm trying to fix that

the goal is to have about three people

that report to me but like I said it's

it's a work in progress if you're gonna

talk afterwards my background is project

management I worked for like some

consulting company so I'm amazing that

sort of stuff before I got laid off so

we could take it offline later how do

you spell so one thing I want to ask you

is it's amazing that you have some of

the same people that you hired from

years ago still working with you why do

you think

that's the case

ah nobody's asked me that before I don't

know I think

I don't know I think we pay them very

fairly we've I sometimes I recently

entered a partnership and my partner

sometimes gives me crap about this but I

don't think of the fact that you know

this individual is in the Philippines

and a dollar to them is much different

than a dollar to to me in my country

I've never really spent a lot of time

thinking about that and so we just pay

them kind of like we would pay somebody

here you know just based on on on their

skills maybe not quite like them it

might pay somebody I might have to pay

somebody here a little bit more but it's

not that far from and that and I think

that was became my approach from early

on and so I think that's fairly true of

everyone on our team maybe yeah I would

say pretty well everyone on our team is

we just didn't think so much about you

know okay well they're from the

Philippines so I can pay them like three

dollars an hour and they're gonna live

like a king I hear that all the time I

think that's ridiculous I think you

ought to pay them for the value that

they're creating and yeah so I think

that's probably a part of it and I think

maybe that sort of fair fairness

probably trickles down into other

aspects of my management style if you

will which i-i-i i don't think i'm my

partner is much a much better manager

than me I can tell like I've always been

able to tell he's he's just so

empathetic he's always asking people how

they're feeling and all that kind of

thing I'm a little bit robotic and that

I just kind of focus on on what I'm I'm

doing and I you know I clock in a clock

out and and I just I some sometimes I

forget that I'm working with human

beings here and it doesn't hurt to be a

little bit more human here and there so

I wouldn't claim to have I figure it out

I'm still trying to trying to work on it

cool that all makes sense

so let's shift gear so we got a few more

minutes left we'll try and get through

all these juicy link-building questions

will turn to treat them rapid-fire and I

think folks are gonna like this I can

tell already just our conversation went

well and everything so maybe we do a

round two in the future if you're up for

it but let's do Macy's link all right

just quick over a few like link building

for like a brand new site and you could

talk a little bit about link velocity as

well but just what's your approach again

kind of go into the circ seeing what's

up and seeing what's working but

generally speaking you know if we're

talking about a local business I'm

starting with getting those citations

done right away just getting them done I

know they take forever to get indexed so

it's like the first thing I do and I

forget about it and then I move on to

trying to do where possible a mix of

both locally focused stuff so stuff from

websites in their locale so maybe it

might be you know if we're talking about

a garage door company let's say then I'm

thinking about okay who are their

vendors where are they located are they

also located in Vancouver who's

supplying them do they have websites

where might we get a link on their

website do does my client have any kids

do those kids play on a sports teams

could we sponsor those sports teams for

a link on a website they have things

just things like that that I can put my

client to work on because generally

those there they're not gonna be fast at

any of that and so if I can get them

started really really early on just kind

of picking out their address book

anybody they pick anybody they know

locally that has a website I want to

find a way onto that website whether

it's topically relevant or not I don't

care I want the the locally relevant

those are the hardest the hardest links

to get him in my experience and

sometimes it requires picking up a phone

and people don't always like to to do

that so yeah it takes time it takes

effort and getting it started early is

really smart the other stuff tends to be

sort of more of the the guest post type

of stuff usually it's it's really

relationship-based approach we have and

long have had a sort of rolodex if you

will of webmasters in a whole whack of

different niches and so our next step

would be for us to go to work and start

contacting some of these folks and see

how we might and this is a really

important thing I think and something

that I think folks tend to forget is you

need you ought to maybe not need but you

ought to I think and I think your

response is going to be quite a bit

better if you do try to find ways to

create value for these for these

webmasters and these contributors and

these whoever they might be like how can

if it's a webmaster how might I bring

value to their business how are they

making money how might my content bring

them more money have I done the research

around that could I do some keyword

research and find some opportunities for

them that I could write a great piece or

that they could you know likely rank for

and that could come to be like a you

know there's no others there's 500

searches per month if we put this

together and maybe I can help you

promote a little bit this could bring

value to your business instead of hey

I've got a piece of content it's

mediocre would you put it on your site

you know what I mean like that's often

how people are approached so trying to

come from a place of value and empathy

versus a place of Requirement or need

yes and a couple of things I want to

want to backtrack so a lot of my

audience their affiliate marketers so if

you're interesting coming at it from the

the local aspect I imagine a lot of it's

you know trance transfers over like the

guest posting or bringing value in fact

one of the things I mentioned and try

and get people to do is like yeah you

want to bring value so potentially like

if you're pitching a guest post you can

tell the webmaster hey I'm gonna mention

products you could put your own

affiliate links in there and

and they're like oh hey maybe I'll make

some money from it and I would get free

content a lot of people are trying to

publish often so that's a great way to

do it so the the backtrack is like for

affiliate marketers where the local

citations and stuff like that may not

make sense do you have any other

suggestions or just like start with a

relationship building do the guest

posting like try to be a member of the

community at large that sort of thing

yeah I would as soon as possible start

building that rolodex because you never

know when affiliates in my experience

don't just build one website and then

that's there one website forever they

tend to move into new markets and all

that kind of thing so building that

rolodex and respecting that rolodex is

really important and doing that as early

as possible like keep a database and

just like you would if you know you're

going out to meet ups and you're trying

to keep track of the people that you are

meeting and how you might you know bring

value to them in the future and who they

work for and all that kind of stuff same

same thing applies here there I think

oftentimes we think of all of these

things as websites and not people but

they're people and and we need to kind

of talk to them like people and that's I

think that's the only way that as an

affiliate you're going to get sort of

above the fodder if you will and I would

recommend not in this kind of a

no-brainer but again a lot of people try

to go for scale and they may fail

miserably and some people can do scale

like the guys over at authority hackers

those dudes can do scale but they also

have a decade of link building

experience so right but basically what I

was gonna say is don't be afraid to

reach out on via Twitter don't be afraid

you know if you've got something of

value to bring people will reply to you

maybe not always like you're gonna face

a lot of rejection of course that's just

part of it but don't be afraid to preach

on Twitter on LinkedIn on and don't be

afraid to do the follow up a lot of

people they just they do the single

email or the single outreach and like

you and I I'm sure both guilty we miss

stuff like that like I have missed

really good opportunities in my inbox

just because I forgot just you know it

was like I can remember one specifically

a roundup and it would have been an

incredible link super super super good

link and I just I got busy I forgot

about it and they never reached out

again and and they never reached out

again the opportunity never came up

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